Improved Kip-Up feat question

[David knott 242]

One of the new feats in the Character Operations Manual is "Improved Kip-Up", which reads as follows:

"You can stand from prone in a blink of an eye.

Prerequisites: Acrobatics 1 rank, Kip-Up feat or moxie racial trait.

Benefit: You can stand from prone as a reaction. If you have 5 or more ranks in Acrobatics, you can expend 1 Resolve Point to stand from prone during your turn as part of another full, move, or standard action you take."

The first sentence of the benefit appears to be a reaction with no trigger. When can you actually use this reaction?

And the second sentence of the benefit seems to be of dubious value. To qualify for this feat, you must already have the ability to stand up from prone as a swift action -- so the only time you would want to spend that Resolve Point would be in the relatively unusual case where you want to stand up from prone and take another swift action on the same turn.

Is there something that I am missing here?

[Raxmei]

I don't have a definite answer to question 1 but I think as a reaction to getting dropped prone would at least be reasonable.
Taking a swift action means you can't use a full action on the same turn. I believe the main benefit of this is being able to stand up and full attack.

[BigNorseWolf]

Quote:

The first sentence of the benefit appears to be a reaction with no trigger. When can you actually use this reaction?

Whenever you can use your reaction: usually because you haven't gotten knocked on your butt more than once a round and haven't spent your AOO.

Quote:

And the second sentence of the benefit seems to be of dubious value. To qualify for this feat, you must already have the ability to stand up from prone as a swift action -- so the only time you would want to spend that Resolve Point would be in the relatively unusual case where you want to stand up from prone and take another swift action on the same turn.

Is there something that I am missing here?

Eyup. In starfinder using your swift action keeps you from using a full round action (which occupies your swift move and standard). This keeps you from trick attacking as an operative or full attacking as a soldier. A lot of things being a swift action isn't much of an upgrade from a move action. (quickdraw for instance is nearly worthless to anyone but a thrown weapon user)

[Lethallin]

I assume whenever you're on the ground, you can choose to use your reaction to stand up.

The trigger is "being prone", you're just able to have that trigger stay active.

It's actually pretty nice to be able to drop to the ground to help avoid ranged attacks, stand up right before your turn, and now you are standing at the beginning of your turn.

[David knott 242]

Thanks to all of you.

I had forgotten about how swift actions interfere with full round actions and full attacks, possibly because my character doesn't use such actions much.

For the reaction, I had noticed that being prone is an advantage when you are being attacked at range but a disadvantage when somebody moves right up to you to whack you, so I was hoping that this feat would let me stand up when an enemy moved next to me. If the trigger is indeed "being prone", then I guess I am covered. If the trigger is being knocked prone, not so much.

So this feat may be more useful than I thought.

[roonechr]

I think the question remains: When can you use the reaction?

This is in doubt because a reaction is defined as:

"A reaction is a special action you can take even if it’s not your turn, but only after a defined and concrete trigger."

The feat text lacks a defined trigger. Any answer would only be an assumption without support in the text.

Devs should clarify this.

I will say that if the intent is to be able to do it at any time, the bit about spending RP is of dubious value; you could just use your reaction to stand and save the RP.

[Nimor Starseeker]

I think the trigger for using the improved kick-up feat is anytime you are prone.

[Garretmander]

Being prone is probably not enough of a trigger, but what could be a trigger makes it so you might as well rule it that way anyway.

Gaining the prone condition is a good trigger, as is anyone else taking an action, or entering/leaving a square, which really means you could stand up at any time while prone so you might as well allow that.

[BigNorseWolf]

I mean, if you have 2 feats or equivalent invested in popping up off the ground I don't see what prevents the character from doing it any time they want to, either from a mechanics standpoint or a simulationist standpoint.

[Nimor Starseeker]

You could stand up in someone else’s turn, after they trip you.
Then your enemies won’t get that juicy +4 to hit you with when your down.

[ThermalCat]

Maybe this is in the House Rule category, but I'd allow a reaction of this sort to be bundled in to a readied action, so the trigger stated by a player could be "If any foe comes up next to me, I will Kip-up and do my full melee attack on that person". The reaction would be defensive, so I'd count that as before the enemy action (removing the +4 to hit prone), but the full attack comes after the enemy action.

[Nimor Starseeker]

ThermalCat wrote:

Maybe this is in the House Rule category, but I'd allow a reaction of this sort to be bundled in to a readied action, so the trigger stated by a player could be "If any foe comes up next to me, I will Kip-up and do my full melee attack on that person". The reaction would be defensive, so I'd count that as before the enemy action (removing the +4 to hit prone), but the full attack comes after the enemy action.

You can only ready a standard action, so you would not get a full attack, but you would get off 1 attack.

I the the kick-up part of it would not be part of the ready action, but as part of the reaction.
So, kind of like you are saying, but I don’t think it is a house rule, I think you can do it with rules as written.