roonechr's page

"requirements that apply

text that doesn't apply
text starts applying again."

But that is not the way it's written. It is this:

1) Text that describes a unique full attack action granted by the feat.
2) Restrictions to that unique full attack action.
3) A way in which the feat modifies the trick attack full action.

There in no text after the clause relating to trick attack. When you use trick attack you are by definition not using the full attack action granted by Spring Attack, you are using the trick attack full action.

Having said that, to me the text is inconclusive; it could be reasonably interpreted either way.

We need a FAQ entry to clarify.

"Why wouldn't the prohibition apply?"

Because there are two distinct uses, and the prohibitions are only stated for the first one.

The text can reasonably be interpreted multiple ways and the impact to gameplay is significant. We need a FAQ entry.

My interpretation is that the Spring Attack feat grants two benefits:

1) As a full action, you can move up to your speed and make a single melee attack or combat maneuver without provoking any attacks of opportunity from the target of your attack. You can move both before and after the attack, but you must move at least 10 feet before the attack, and the total distance that you move cannot be greater than your speed. You cannot use this ability to attack a foe that is adjacent to you at the start of your turn.

2) If you have the trick attack class feature, you can take your movement from trick attack at any time during a trick attack with a melee weapon (instead of only before), without provoking any attacks of opportunity from the target of your attack.

The limitations placed on the special full action granted by Spring Attack are not applied when you use trick attack because you are not using the special full attack action granted by Spring Attack.

"You can take your movement from trick attack at any time during a trick attack" means that you can move, take your attack, and move again. If it meant "before or after" it would have been better to simply say "before or after".

However, I also see your points. There is definitely room for argument.

I think the question remains: When can you use the reaction?

This is in doubt because a reaction is defined as:

"A reaction is a special action you can take even if it’s not your turn, but only after a defined and concrete trigger."

The feat text lacks a defined trigger. Any answer would only be an assumption without support in the text.

Devs should clarify this.

I will say that if the intent is to be able to do it at any time, the bit about spending RP is of dubious value; you could just use your reaction to stand and save the RP.

@BigNorseWolf I agree with you if, and only if, the language that applies to the primary benefits of Spring Attack and Shot on the Run also apply to the the benefit it provides to trick attack.

There is a an interpretation of the RAW, equally valid IMO, that the feats provide two distinct benefits:

1) Gain the ability to make a unique full action with certain conditions.
2) Modify the trick attack full action.

In this case, the conditions are part of the first benefit only and do not apply to the second benefit, so they are, as written:

Spring Attack: If you have the trick attack class feature, you can take your movement from trick attack at any time during a trick attack with a melee weapon (instead of only before), without provoking any attacks of opportunity from the target of your attack.

Shot on the Run: If you have the trick attack class feature, you can take your movement from trick attack at any time during a trick attack with a ranged weapon (instead of only before).

My question is: Do the restrictions apply to the trick attack portion of the feat? My assumption was that they did, but the text doesn't state that.

"But you can't split your movement with a Trick Attack, just shift the otherwise mandatory move then attack order."

I tend to disagree, since they could have said "you can take your movement from trick attack before or after you make the attack", but instead they said "at any time".

I do think it is unclear and your interpretation is equally valid.

I've seen discussion of this point going back quite some time. Has there never been developer comment on it? It seems like rather a big deal, since it also applies to Shot on the Run, which uses the same language and is quite popular among Operatives.

I originally assumed that as well. Then it occurred to me that when you Trick Attack with Spring Attack you are taking the trick attack full action, not the full action granted by Spring Attack, which is what the limitations apply to.

It could be read that Spring Attack has two distinct full actions that it enables:

1) As a full action, you can move up to your speed and make a single melee attack or combat maneuver without provoking any attacks of opportunity from the target of your attack. You can move both before and after the attack, but you must move at least 10 feet before the attack, and the total distance that you move cannot be greater than your speed. You cannot use this ability to attack a foe that is adjacent to you at the start of your turn.

2) If you have the trick attack class feature, you can take your movement from trick attack at any time during a trick attack with a melee weapon (instead of only before), without provoking any attacks of opportunity from the target of your attack.

RAW is worded exactly this way; The clauses that apply the requirement to move 10 feet before the attack and prevent you from using it against an adjacent target modify only the first use, not the second. If they were meant to apply to trick attack, they more appropriately would have been stated after both uses are described.

It could very easily be that it is simply not clearly worded, and the intent is for the limitations to apply. I would argue, however, that by RAW they do not.

The Trick Attack benefit of Spring Attack states:

"If you have the trick attack class feature, you can take your movement from trick attack at any time during a trick attack with a melee weapon (instead of only before), without provoking any attacks of opportunity from the target of your attack."

Is this benefit subject to the restrictions that you must move 10 feet before the attack and cannot attack a foe that was adjacent to you at the start of your turn that using Spring Attack as a full action is?

I love the convenience of flip-mats, especially ones like this of outdoor areas that are often difficult to sketch.

Given that, I often find that I need a larger area than a single map can encompass. I would like to see maps like this with the two sides able to connect together to form a single larger map. I would buy two of many maps if they had this feature.

Even better would be two flip-mats with each side able to connect to one side of the other map. For example, two maps each with one side of forest that connects to other map's forest side and one side of desert that connects to the other map's desert side. This would allow larger areas to be represented without having to buy two copies of the same map. Similarly, maps of buildings where different floors are represented on each side could instead be two maps with one floor of the building on one side and something else on the other side. This would eliminate the necessity to buy two of the same building map to accommodate party members being on both floors simultaneously.