Creative Director
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Fair enough. You can certainly play a larger than 6' foot tall human though... there's nothing in the rules preventing you from playing a human who's 7 or even 8 feet tall. The rules for having to randomly determine height and weight and age and all that aren't part of 2nd edition on purpose so you can build the type of PC you want without feeling like you're cheating if you choose someone who's extra tall or extra short.
We still can't do goliaths as folks want them without getting sued by WotC though. We've got plenty of other options for PC ancestries, and we'll keep doing them as we go forward, which means we'll be increasingly diversifying the options available.
But we aren't going to specifically try to duplicate a non-open-content intellectual property version of another company's creation, such as goliaths or dragonborn or so on.
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We're redoing "what Nagaji look like" in PF2 right? IIRC they were the naturally tallest ancestry in PF1.
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Similarly, what is it about the class that you mentioned (Radiant Servant of Pelor/Sarenrae), which I have never heard of before, that you like and want in Pathfinder? What would make a completely new class fill that same niche for you?
It was a Prestige class in 3.5 from Complete Divine, I believe. It was a PrC that doubled down on positive energy channeling, with more turning, stronger turning, and more potent heals.
But in PF2 terms, that's just a cleric. Perhaps a couple more feats to get more use out of Channel Divinity, nothing that won't be printed eventually. Maybe even an archetype that revolves around energy channeling, possibly centered around the Knights of Lastwall.
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If a 3'8" dwarf woman and a 6'6" human man can both be medium creatures, I don't know why something like an 8' hypothetical ancestry couldn't be medium too.They could certainly be Medium, but they'd be treated as Medium, not Large, and wouldn't gain the advantages of that size category.I feel like the impulse worth catering too is "I want to play a character who is just a really towering individual." The "I want to get natural reach for free at chargen" impulse is something we can safely ignore.
After all, the "I want to have really long arms or arm analogues" fantasy is handled by a first level Leshy feat and that still doesn't let you get 15' of reach cheaply.
This.
For me I’d want to play a Giant-blooded character/[insert Ancestry name of choice] for the theme and aesthetic, not because I want reach or to take up more squares.
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Yeah, having an Ancestry specifically catering to 'I'm eight feet tall, tremble before me.' seems totally reasonable to me. Being actually Large is not really the point of that.
I never looked too much into how goliaths worked in 3.5 D&D, but isn't that one of the whole points of the ancestry? That it's a Large-sized PC option?
Actually no, Goliaths are not Large sized. They get a few of the benefits of being Large without technically actually being so (in 3.5, they counted as being Large for 'effects related to size' such as who could grapple who and weapon size, while in 5E, they just count as large for purposes of their carrying capacity). They never got reach or to take up more than one square.
They are primarily to cater to the fantasy of being larger than others with some mechanics to reinforce that without actually getting into the weirdness of Large sized PCs.
And while Paizo obviously can't use actual Goliaths, having an Ancestry that serves that same role of 'biggest guy' seems like something that could definitely be done in Pathfinder.
I'd tempted to put half-giant in the "powerful ancestries" book that I want so, so bad. Give them an option to be just shy of large or full-on large with GM discretion.
The closest things to that is: Angelfire Apostle, Blossoming Light, and Dawnflower Anchorite.
Dawnflower Anchorite is a bit too martial, but the other two are spot on.
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I think playing someone with a gigantism condition feels very different from someone who is very big, while being a typical size for their ancestry. Do correct me if I'm wrong.
You know what would be really easy to implement? A half-nephlim human heritage. The PF1 nephilim entry describes them having half-human children, which are basically like humans but especially big and strong. You might even be able to fit it on a single page, and it sounds like it would satisfy the majority of what people are looking for. Maybe do a Large size full nephilim eventually, maybe not.
A giant-themed ancestry definitely sounds cool, but this would be easy to get out quickly and satisfy a lot of people.
A half-nephilim aasimar would be exactly what one of my Starfinder group wants to play.
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Nephilims are part of the Legacy of Fire Adventure Path. Only way I can see them appearing is if Paizo decides to do another adventure path in that area and give half-nephilim as a potential rare heritage.
And even then the racial feats would be very skim given there really isn't much lore for them. I dont even think those half-nephilims would even get the large size given the response from Paizo.
Nephilim were reprinted in Bestiary 3 for Pathfinder, and I’m pretty sure they’ve showed up in other places.
(Things that are that area specific that I’d love to see make a comeback are the Azi, but that’s a tangent)
A nephilim aasimar lineage would be really easy: just two feats. A lineage feat at level 1, and "nephilim magic" at level 9. With flavour text, that's one column. There just needs to be somewhere thematically appropriate to tuck it in, if enough people want it.
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Creative Director
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Nephilim have shown up in other adventures as well, Wrath of the Righteous for example. They're an established part of the world, but I'm not so sure I want to make them a PC ancestry. Powering them down to serve in that regard would result in something that looks just like a tiefling or an aasimar or a duskwalker or a ganzi or an aphorite. I'd rather keep them as powerful creatures. In the same regard, I don't think a "titan" ancestry makes sense...
Personally, I think the only reason a large ancestry really appeals is because of the inherent disbalance among all the choices. Humans are, as in many things, presented as middle of the road and average. However, they are one of the largest ancestries, behind only orc and lizardfolk off the top of my head. And with the Ancestry Guide are coming tiny sized characters with sprites. So I think the disconnect people have is that humans are among the largest of the possible choices, which doesn't really click in some heads.
Anyways. Nephilim would be cool, a dragon-blooded universal heritage would be cool, giant-blooded would be cool, a medium-sized arboreal leshy would be cool... I dunno. I actually am just really excited to see what's coming in any case. The game isn't really lacking now and we have so many secret things coming in six months that I will just push myself to be patient. I'll stop babbling now.
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Nephilim have shown up in other adventures as well, Wrath of the Righteous for example. They're an established part of the world, but I'm not so sure I want to make them a PC ancestry. Powering them down to serve in that regard would result in something that looks just like a tiefling or an aasimar or a duskwalker or a ganzi or an aphorite. I'd rather keep them as powerful creatures. In the same regard, I don't think a "titan" ancestry makes sense...
I think Titan blooded would work great for a character like Kassandra from Assasin's Creed or KRatos from God of War.
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Creative Director
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Nephilim have shown up in other adventures as well, Wrath of the Righteous for example. They're an established part of the world, but I'm not so sure I want to make them a PC ancestry. Powering them down to serve in that regard would result in something that looks just like a tiefling or an aasimar or a duskwalker or a ganzi or an aphorite. I'd rather keep them as powerful creatures. In the same regard, I don't think a "titan" ancestry makes sense...I think Titan blooded would work great for a character like Kassandra from Assasin's Creed or KRatos from God of War.
That feels more like something that should be tied to whatever we do with mythic stuff in 2nd edition, rather than a run-of-the-mill ancestry.
Also, a character backstory like what Kassandra or Kratos get is more appropriate for a single player experience anyway, since the point of their story (and the game they're in) is that they are the only one who could take on the situation presented in the story, and that no one else could do it. That doesn't work for a game like Pathfinder, which assumes multiple "main characters," in the form of different PCs.
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To put in my own two cents and if I'm not mistaken, summarize what a lot of people are looking for:
I'd like to see a playable ancestry that is thematically bigger than human in the same way dwarves are thematically smaller (they can be medium, in game terms)
I would like for them to reinforce the being big fantasy by having ancestry feats predicated on it in a controlled not disruptive way, a little extra reach, bonuses against forced movement, bonus to grappling, whatever.
Finally, the flavor for them should be Paizo-specific to give it its own identity, whether that's new to 2e or an adaption of something already extant.
To put in my own two cents and if I'm not mistaken, summarize what a lot of people are looking for:
I'd like to see a playable ancestry that is thematically bigger than human in the same way dwarves are thematically smaller (they can be medium, in game terms)
I would like for them to reinforce the being big fantasy by having ancestry feats predicated on it in a controlled not disruptive way, a little extra reach, bonuses against forced movement, bonus to grappling, whatever.
Finally, the flavor for them should be Paizo-specific to give it its own identity, whether that's new to 2e or an adaption of something already extant.
Yep! That's what I tried to say but I think I messed it up. :)
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Let's see... ancestries that could fill the role of the "big guy" with a bit more work (I.e. heritages and feats that emphasize their bigness) or porting over from PF1.
1. Orc. "Many orcs top 7 feet in height"
2. Lizardfolk. "The average lizardfolk stands 6 to 7 feet tall, but grows throughout their lifetime, gaining strength and size with age." (Woah, that heritage/feat writes itself. Ancient Lizardfolk.)
3. Human. Could easily be a heritage for really tall folk.
4. Ghoran. A groot type look would be prettyy sweet.
5. Kasatha. "The average kasatha is 6 to 7 feet tall."
6. Changelings. The annis hag is large, maybe their daughters could be on the tall side.
7. Androids. They could just be built big.