So when one full attacks with natural attacks Is there any kind of minus associated with this? Like for example the character I've been working on in my head will have a Total of 8 natural attacks at level 12 or so, 4 Primary and 4 Secondary. Other than the normal -5 for secondary attacks are there any other minuses?
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Nope. Behold the ugliness of natural attack builds.
No.
Well, not from the rules, anyway. If you take too long, the GM or other players might give you (justified) grief. I recommend using colored d20s to roll the attacks in batches of 4 together, usually you can ask the GM if the lowest attack hits. That's how I played my Eidolon.
Nope. Watch out for housecats.
I mean, sure. Building a cheesy Nat attacker is fun and all, but the real question is: what’s your will save? Cuz that’s make or break if you’re gonna run cheesy crap like that. You’re about to be hitting teammates 8 times buddy. Or you’re about to be staggered for 12 rounds. Or any number of other things I’d do to you to make sure you understood not to bring that BS to my table again lol.
Druids are among the best natural attackers RAWmonger (q.v. mutated wild shape, planar wild shape) and have good will saves with some Wis required. I think that talking out of character is a better way to deal with builds that offend you than trying to squash the offending PC in-game.
RAWmonger wrote: I mean, sure. Building a cheesy Nat attacker is fun and all, but the real question is: what’s your will save? Cuz that’s make or break if you’re gonna run cheesy crap like that. You’re about to be hitting teammates 8 times buddy. Or you’re about to be staggered for 12 rounds. Or any number of other things I’d do to you to make sure you understood not to bring that BS to my table again lol. I do appreciate the reminder of needing to sure up my Will save, though I hope you don't talk to everyone that inquires for help in such a hostile manner.
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Darc1396 wrote: RAWmonger wrote: I mean, sure. Building a cheesy Nat attacker is fun and all, but the real question is: what’s your will save? Cuz that’s make or break if you’re gonna run cheesy crap like that. You’re about to be hitting teammates 8 times buddy. Or you’re about to be staggered for 12 rounds. Or any number of other things I’d do to you to make sure you understood not to bring that BS to my table again lol. I do appreciate the reminder of needing to sure up my Will save, though I hope you don't talk to everyone that inquires for help in such a hostile manner. Good Will Saves come naturally for a lot of Natural Attack builds: don't worry about too much. Very likely, it will just happen.
Your hopes of civility on the Internet will be crushed like cheeballs and Pringles.
Whenever a Pringle sees someone that doesn't fit neatly in their box and stacks with them, their intolerance and close-mindedness forces them to dismiss them as cheeseballs. But inside the Pringles box it is cramped, small, and dark. The cheeseball box is bright and spacious.
I'd rather be a cheeseball than a Pringle.
A Pringle wouldn't understand this. Don't pay attention to a bunch of pringles acting like pringles.
Secondary Natural Weapons get a penalty (-5 normally, -2 with feat), but primary ones only get a penalty if combined with manufactured weapons.
Darc1396 wrote: when one full attacks with natural attacks Is there any kind of minus associated with this? Other than the normal -5 for secondary attacks are there any other minuses? KahnyaGnorc wrote: Secondary Natural Weapons get a penalty (-5 normally, -2 with feat), but primary ones only get a penalty if combined with manufactured weapons. But also, there is no such thing as a Tertiary Natural Attack. If you're natural Attack is already Secondary, there is no harm in going ahead and using your regular, manufactured weapons. So if your sword-and-board character gets a Tentacle Cloak, there is no reason not to keep 2 weapon fighting with your Bastard Sword and Armor Spikes, since you were going to be taking those -5's on those Tentacles anyway.
Something else, the demotion from primary to secondary through combining regular and Natural Attacks only happens when you do that with your Full Attack. If, for example, you have Greater Trip, and Trip someone with your Bite Attack then take your Attack of Opportunity with your Bastard Sword, there is no penalty, nor is there the other way around: If you tripped them with your Halberd then took your AoO with your Bite, no penalties there. This would be the case even if you had Greater Trip and Vicious Stomp, taking 1 Unarmed AoO and 1 with the Bite, no problem.
Darc1396 wrote: So Like for example the character I've been working on in my head will have a Total of 8 natural attacks at level 12 or so, 4 Primary and 4 Secondary. Will you be favoring us with details of your build?
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Scott Wilhelm wrote: Darc1396 wrote: when one full attacks with natural attacks Is there any kind of minus associated with this? Other than the normal -5 for secondary attacks are there any other minuses? KahnyaGnorc wrote: Secondary Natural Weapons get a penalty (-5 normally, -2 with feat), but primary ones only get a penalty if combined with manufactured weapons. But also, there is no such thing as a Tertiary Natural Attack. If you're natural Attack is already Secondary, there is no harm in going ahead and using your regular, manufactured weapons. So if your sword-and-board character gets a Tentacle Cloak, there is no reason not to keep 2 weapon fighting with your Bastard Sword and Armor Spikes, since you were going to be taking those -5's on those Tentacles anyway.
Something else, the demotion from primary to secondary through combining regular and Natural Attacks only happens when you do that with your Full Attack. If, for example, you have Greater Trip, and Trip someone with your Bite Attack then take your Attack of Opportunity with your Bastard Sword, there is no penalty, nor is there the other way around: If you tripped them with your Halberd then took your AoO with your Bite, no penalties there. This would be the case even if you had Greater Trip and Vicious Stomp, taking 1 Unarmed AoO and 1 with the Bite, no problem.
Darc1396 wrote: So Like for example the character I've been working on in my head will have a Total of 8 natural attacks at level 12 or so, 4 Primary and 4 Secondary. Will you be favoring us with details of your build? If you only have one natural attack, a secondary natural attack is promoted to a primary though, so there is a bit of a penalty in that first situation you describe.
Lelomenia wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: Darc1396 wrote: when one full attacks with natural attacks Is there any kind of minus associated with this? Other than the normal -5 for secondary attacks are there any other minuses? KahnyaGnorc wrote: Secondary Natural Weapons get a penalty (-5 normally, -2 with feat), but primary ones only get a penalty if combined with manufactured weapons. But also, there is no such thing as a Tertiary Natural Attack. If you're natural Attack is already Secondary, there is no harm in going ahead and using your regular, manufactured weapons. So if your sword-and-board character gets a Tentacle Cloak, there is no reason not to keep 2 weapon fighting with your Bastard Sword and Armor Spikes, since you were going to be taking those -5's on those Tentacles anyway.
Something else, the demotion from primary to secondary through combining regular and Natural Attacks only happens when you do that with your Full Attack. If, for example, you have Greater Trip, and Trip someone with your Bite Attack then take your Attack of Opportunity with your Bastard Sword, there is no penalty, nor is there the other way around: If you tripped them with your Halberd then took your AoO with your Bite, no penalties there. This would be the case even if you had Greater Trip and Vicious Stomp, taking 1 Unarmed AoO and 1 with the Bite, no problem.
Darc1396 wrote: So Like for example the character I've been working on in my head will have a Total of 8 natural attacks at level 12 or so, 4 Primary and 4 Secondary. Will you be favoring us with details of your build? If you only have one natural attack, a secondary natural attack is promoted to a primary though, so there is a bit of a penalty in that first situation you describe. So, if you are a Sword Trained Tengu who finds a Tentacle Cloack, you might as well keep fighting with Bastard Sword and Armor Spikes.
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