A few clarifications needed...


Advice

Dark Archive

I have a few rules questions I hope you people can help me with:

1) There is no mention of it in the core rulebook, but I assume it takes an Interact action to get something out of your backpack? For example, if I drink a potion it takes two Interact actions? Is this correct?

2) If a one-action or two-action feat includes mention of several actions, you don't need to spend additional actions to perform them, right? I get that Sudden Charge lets you Stride twice + Strike for two actions, but there are others that confuse me with their wording, for example:

Clan's Edge Feat wrote:
Make two clan dagger Strikes against different targets. Your multiple attack penalty applies normally to these Strikes. You then use an Interact action to gain the +1 circumstance bonus to your AC from your clan dagger’s parrying trait.

Does this mean you get to do two Strikes + Interact by spending two actions, or do I need to spend my third action to Interact for that AC bonus? If it's just two actions, why does it not say something like "Make two clan dagger Strikes... Regardless of whether they hit you gain the +1 circumstance bonus to your AC from your clan dagger’s parrying trait."?

3) Is there a point to cast non-cantrip spells as heightened versions, because in most cases (except for fireball, I guess) all you get is +1 die of damage? I mean, if I do already, say, 5d6 points of damage with a 3rd level spell, why "waste" a 4th level slot to do 6d6? I'm genuinely confused by this. I'd get it if the die size would increase, or if you got +2 dice of damage for each heightened spell level, but in many cases you simply increase the damage by 1 die. What's the point in heightening such spells?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

1. You are correct in your assessment for getting an item out of the back pack.

2. If your example is twin parry it only takes the two actions.

3. Most of the spells I am seeing go up by 2d6 for each level heightened. Cone of cold does vampiric touch and spirt blast do as well. The only spells that only went up by 1d6 either lasted more than one round or had an additional effect that they did besides damage.

Dark Archive

Emeric Tusan wrote:

1. You are correct in your assessment for getting an item out of the back pack.

2. If your example is twin parry it only takes the two actions.

3. Most of the spells I am seeing go up by 2d6 for each level heightened. Cone of cold does vampiric touch and spirt blast do as well. The only spells that only went up by 1d6 either lasted more than one round or had an additional effect that they did besides damage.

Okay, maybe I've mistaken something, but I think my SE Core Rulebook contains quite a few examples of heightened spells that only receive +1d6 damage/spell level. I have to check again once I get home from work.

Yeah, Twin Parry is a fine example of tight design and clear wording; it's one action and you get the circumstance bonus (and you get +2 if the weapon has the 'parry' trait). That is why I wonder why there would be a need to mention the Interact action unless you have to spend it? Or is it because Incapacitated/Paralyzed/Etcetera PCs cannot use that benefit, i.e. you need to be able to act "normally"?


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Asgetrion wrote:
Emeric Tusan wrote:

1. You are correct in your assessment for getting an item out of the back pack.

2. If your example is twin parry it only takes the two actions.

3. Most of the spells I am seeing go up by 2d6 for each level heightened. Cone of cold does vampiric touch and spirt blast do as well. The only spells that only went up by 1d6 either lasted more than one round or had an additional effect that they did besides damage.

Okay, maybe I've mistaken something, but I think my SE Core Rulebook contains quite a few examples of heightened spells that only receive +1d6 damage/spell level. I have to check again once I get home from work.

Yeah, Twin Parry is a fine example of tight design and clear wording; it's one action and you get the circumstance bonus (and you get +2 if the weapon has the 'parry' trait). That is why I wonder why there would be a need to mention the Interact action unless you have to spend it? Or is it because Incapacitated/Paralyzed/Etcetera PCs cannot use that benefit, i.e. you need to be able to act "normally"?

they mention that it's "interact" because the next feat in the clan dagger line happens "when you Interact to get the parry bonus". Also, it may trigger Reactions that trigger on Interact actions.

As for spells, yeah, most do scale by 2dx


Emeric Tusan wrote:
The only spells that only went up by 1d6 either lasted more than one round or had an additional effect that they did besides damage.

Depends on the spell and circumstance. If the duration increases it probly has a secondary effect besides damage that may be desirable. You may also find yourself in a situation that you don't know a higher level spell of say, cold damage, and you find out there are creatures weak to cold up ahead, but you have a cold cantrip to boost with the appropriate prep time.

At the end of the day not all cantrips trump or even equal spells of higher levels when heightened but it gives you a lot more flexibility down the road.


Asgetrion wrote:
3) Is there a point to cast non-cantrip spells as heightened versions, because in most cases (except for fireball, I guess) all you get is +1 die of damage? I mean, if I do already, say, 5d6 points of damage with a 3rd level spell, why "waste" a 4th level slot to do 6d6? I'm genuinely confused by this. I'd get it if the die size would increase, or if you got +2 dice of damage for each heightened spell level, but in many cases you simply increase the damage by 1 die. What's the point in heightening such spells?

A caster will not know every spell. For example, as a wizard you take Fireball 2nd and some non fire damage spell 3rd. Then you learn the boss you will fight tomorrow is weak to fire. Upcasting Fireball will probably be more effective then your other damage spell.

Heightening is even better for spontaneous casters, who don't have to know enemy weaknesses ahead of time. Just take a variety of energy types as signature spells and always have the right type for the enemy.

Dark Archive

Thanks, everyone! It all makes more sense now, I'm glad you could help me with clarifying these rules! :)


Page 273 when it comes to removing items from your backpack.

Three actions total, 1 to remove, two to remove an item from it.

So if you store a potion in your backpack, it is one action to take off the backpack, two to find the potion, then one more action (fourth) to drink the potion.


The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

Page 273 when it comes to removing items from your backpack.

Three actions total, 1 to remove, two to remove an item from it.

So if you store a potion in your backpack, it is one action to take off the backpack, two to find the potion, then one more action (fourth) to drink the potion.

I think you're misreading that. Removing an item takes two hands but only one action (an Interact). So one action to take off the backpack, a second to retrieve the potion (using both hands---I presume one is holding the backpack open while the other goes inside), a third to drink the potion.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

Page 273 when it comes to removing items from your backpack.

Three actions total, 1 to remove, two to remove an item from it.

So if you store a potion in your backpack, it is one action to take off the backpack, two to find the potion, then one more action (fourth) to drink the potion.

I think you're misreading that. Removing an item takes two hands but only one action (an Interact). So one action to take off the backpack, a second to retrieve the potion (using both hands---I presume one is holding the backpack open while the other goes inside), a third to drink the potion.

Ouch. No wonder I keep buying bandoliers and such. Since in this example you're out of actions and standing around with a backpack in one hand and an empty vial in the other. Hope you like unarmed combat. And then the actions to put it back on (or ditch it) and then get a weapon back ...


Someone else can get it out for you without needing to take off the pack. Still better in a bandolier or belt pouch


Asgetrion wrote:
3) Is there a point to cast non-cantrip spells as heightened versions?
In addition to what others said:
CRB p 299 wrote:
When you heighten your spell, the spell’s level increases to match the higher level of the spell slot you’ve prepared it in or used to cast it. This is useful for any spell, because some effects, such as counteracting, depend on the spell’s level.

So, for example, preparing Dispel Magic at a higher level has benefits, and likewise preparing any other spell benefits against Dispel Magic (or any other countering effects) when heightened.

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