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Moppy wrote:
Age of Ashes is a bit weird probably because it was written before the 2E rules were finalised. So far, Extinction Curse seems to have returned back to regular AP quality (i.e high). Althoug I am not sure how Plaguestone and Extinction Curse 1 ended up having such a similar plot.

if i remember right age of ashes 1 rminded mea lot of carrion crown 1. city meating catches firw, eventually leads to castle ruins.


Thank you for the feed back!


I noticed the description of the GM Guide mentioned 'hexploration' which I've found fun in the past. Is this basically a guide to setting up hex/squire crawl type game? What did you guys think of it? Was that section helpful or mostly just full of things most GM's would do anyway? Thanks for any input, it is one of the things I am more interested in but don't have a store to skim through to make a purchase decision and I didn't see that section talked about much in the forums.


Depending on how long 'long term' is to your group PF2 may fit the bill. Based off the standard of a full 6 book adventure path it takes about a year to more or less get to max level and be done with the campaign. At the end of the day PF2 is a well done product with a lot of support and high production values so as long as your group is up for it I'd give it a go. Grab the core and monster book as pdf, write up a one shot to test things out and see what you all think.

If you want something that lasts longer than that I kinda feel a point buy system of some sort may work better as you don't really 'max out' and are left with no more character change or growth stats wise. RP wise obviously there is not such limit. A good robust point buy system should have enough options out there to keep adding to and molding character stats for quite some time. My longest game was actually Exalted. Between point buy stats, powers, and a plethora of possible gear we deep dived that game for a little over two years. Earthdawn is also pretty deep into an unique mix of point buy and level based advancement and gear that is well suited for long running campaigns.


Indi523 wrote:
Yossarian wrote:

This means that the GM cannot easily upgrade the creature for higher levels or take the base creature and add a class

Take a look at the Monster and Hazard creation rules. They're a free PDF currently, until the Gamesmastery guide comes out. They tell you how to do all of that. It's very simple in 2e to do so once you know how.

Adding a class is a case of upping the underlying numbers (there's charts in the guide for this) then adding class feats and abilities from the class description as needed and appropriate.

As others have said the design philosophy is very different. It's top-down concept-led design, rather than bottom up formula-based design.

It's a lot faster than 1e monster creation and adaptation, which i'm very happy about after running a campaign to level 20 recently with a lot of modified enemies. OMG that was work. 2e streamlines it enormously. 2e monsters is vying for my favourite change to Pathfinder.

Thank you all for your responses.

I am glad they will come out with a system for this in the Game Masters handbook. I hope it provides what I want. If it does wat you state here then I can work with it.
only
AS to the "it is easier" argument I disagree.

In 1e if you wanted to just quickly for instance make tougher orcs you just adjusted hit points, saves, attacks or damage accordingly on the fly and kind of gauged the power level yourself. This is what the bestiary says to do in 2e. To me that is OK for a quick random monster encounter you have two minutes to set up for the party but it is terrible for planned encounters in an adventure because let's face it the "on the fly" thing is guessing and you usually ended up with fights that were either TPKs or way to easy for final boss fights.

The system in 1e where I can add levels which means I can add feats meant I could make encounters with creatures customized to challenge my characters. For instance, suppose a party member played a multiclassed fighter / rogue build built...

I think this is partly what Yossarian meant by a change in design philosophy. since everything in first was more or less a variation on a class or could have a class there was not a lot of difference adding in a creature with say trip vs giving a level of a class to a creature to give it trip. The core philosophy on monsters (in my opinion) is now to use monsters to tailor the encounter how you like vs tailoring each individual monster. Since their abilities are now quite varied and unique having been separated from the feat system.

As you mentioned the monster book has some short hand rules for upping or decreasing the power of a creature on the fly, mostly by adding 2 to all the things and upping damage the actual core book suggestions recommend adding creatures above making any one creature more powerful. Doing so can add a lot of tactical changes to combat now that creatures powers and abilities are a lot more varied. In looking at it that way it ends up being a lot easier to lay out an adventure ahead of time by populating it with the creature mix that will challenge your players vs having to write up class levels, adding hp, feats, weapon bonuses etc.

I realize that doesn't really help your customization problem and I hope the GM book will get you what you need but I also hope that helps with the view point some of us are coming from that feel 2nd edition is simpler when dealing with monsters/encounters. Also keep in mind there is nothing from stopping you taking base monster stats and just using those instead of choosing a race and background during character creation. Just be aware that may make things a bit more difficult than intended on occasion. My 2 cents. Hope you find a good solution and your group has a good long lived campaign! And please do share if you do settle on a solution you like. Others may feel the same as you and would appreciate using it themselves!


If I understand correctly since it does not list a duration it will last until you are cured or until you make enough saves to cure yourself. At stage 1 and 2 you get to make a saving through ever round. If you drop to stage 3 you only get to make saves once per day.

So once you make your initial save and fail, you get new saves at the listed intervals. On a success you reduce it one stage, on a crit success you reduce it by two. On a failure it increases by one, on a crit fail it increases by two.


Do they have to use there armor in their act? If your strong man is your fighter, let's say, why doesn't he only use his armor adventuring and the rest of the time it's in his trailer? I've got my eye on that adventure path as well but to me this sort of thing is more about character background than what fits in with the circus. It would be odd having weapons and lockpick tools on your rogue clown but again he is not likely to be wearing those things 'on the' job but his character background may/should explain why he has them at all. My 2 cents.


I had some issue with this when I first got that adventure as well. There are a few threads in the 'adventure' section as well some gm info if you are running it here in the 'adventures' section of the forums.

A so the 1 is the level for which the encounter is 'low'. Since all encounters are based on party level now. So if it is low 1 and your party is level 2 it would drop to 'trivial' as I understand it.

B As far as I can tell for combat encounters that xp is the encounter xp. All other xp appears to be listed in the AP, avoiding traps, talking people out of something instead of combat etc.

I'd definitely take a jot over to the https://paizo.com/community/forums/pathfinder/adventures section to see what people have already gone over. If you get to playing or finishing this adventure please remember to let us know what you thought and how things went!


thenobledrake wrote:
The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

Thinking of it that way makes it harder than it needs to be. In reality you choose a difficulty for the encounter and level you expect them to fight it at.

That gives the exp amount to award. Adjustments for encounter budget never have to be written down. Especially as it is always a quarter more per player.

I currently run 5 and 6 member parties and it takes no effort for me to build encounters for them budget wise. And distributing exp is as easy as knowing how much a difficulty category gives.

The other part of my post you quoted is basically the same thing you just said to me. It isn't, however, how the book actually states that this whole thing works. I'll use an example to illustrate:

I'm setting up a campaign for my 6 players. I have an encounter that I want to be a Moderate threat for their level, so I take my 120 XP budget and start to spend it: I pick out creatures for the encounter that happen to 1 level lower than the party, so each is worth 30 XP. I put 4 in the encounter, and I'm good to go.

I of course can reward each character 80 XP for overcoming this threat and call that "close enough" - but if I follow the exact process laid out by the book, I've got "...each character gains XP equal to the total XP of the creatures and hazards in the encounter (this excludes XP adjustments for different party sizes)" to work with.

So if I scale the encounter to 4 players, the budget is 80 XP, so the closes these particular creatures would get to the budget is if there were 3 of them - and that means this encounter is worth 90 XP for each character, rather than 80 XP.

While that's not a big deal if it happens rarely and/or is balanced by some encounters being under-budget but still giving full budget XP, I figure it would be dissatisfying to a not insignificant number of players if they found out they were not getting what the game says they should be.

So, you lost me a bit here. Whether it is 6 players or 3 they get 80 xp each in this example according to the book. they would just fight more or fewer enemies if you are making your own encounter.


PS: Do let us know how your game goes!


Don't forget that in 2nd ed you get to ad +2 to four stats in pretty short order. every 5 levels. So in four levels from starts of the game you get to add +2 to most of your attributes. Knowing that is so close can take the sing out of some of your low stats.


Have fun with it! Genuinely. The thing that got me a bit excited about second edition was all the flavor I found. Your not just a gnome or barbarian your a particular kind of gnome and manifest your barbarian abilities in different ways. Particularly at character generation everything seems to be pretty well ballanced so thin through slowly and see what combo Sparks your imagination the most!


martryn wrote:

Pathfinder 2nd Edition:

Where every melee PC is a coward unwilling to be the first to engage an enemy.
Where no man can stand alone against foes.

I'm remembering why I stopped trying to post on the Paizo forums. Concerned about something in game? It's your fault for being bad at the game. It's your players' fault for being too stupid to use optimized tactics. Your fighter charged an enemy? He deserves to die for not first firing arrows from a distance and allowing the enemy to close to him so he could better take advantage of the action economy in the game.

It seems to me that the combats have become TOO tactical. I have an experienced player who built a headstrong fighter that likes to be in the thick of it. He had a great backstory of being an orphan of war that despises the organized military, raised in war camps, growing up in the wild, uncultured, uneducated, full of ambition, bitterness, and spunk. The first real combat of the campaign the character boldly swings open the front doors to an abandoned castle and strolls in like she owns the place, only to be confronted with three mangy looking goblin dogs. The dogs look up and growl at her. She growls back. They step forward, not backing down. She charges.

In 2nd edition, she charges, hits, and does not drop a goblin dog. Now she is subjected to 7 attacks instead of 3. The first attack from each dog hits with greater than 50% accuracy, and...

I don't think anyone is trying to say that you or your players did anything wrong. If anything most people agree with you and just mentioning how they have worked with it in 2nd edition. From the description you gave of the fighter I don't think anything should or needs to change about the background beyond now knowing goblin dogs are a bit tougher than they look.

If you think it is getting too tactical on the maps then maybe you could try 'theater of the mind' style like in the 'knights of ever flame' podcast game. It seems to work pretty well and gives them a lot of flexibility in using their abilities how they make sense rather than worrying about how many squares here to there.

I hope things smooth out a bit and you can finish the AP. I for one would love to hear how a mid-high level game goes. Good luck and hopfully happy gaming going forward.


martryn wrote:
We prepped for the game for weeks, reading the new rulebook, but it never clicked with anyone just how brutal making 3 strikes in a round could be against the PCs, or just how inflated the monster stats have become.

Just to cover all the bases be sure you're remembering all the penalties. I've yet to see many 3rd attacks actually hit and the 2nd for those dogs would only have been a +4 vs your fighters 18+? AC. One thing I over look a lot as well is to add in your level. While I realize that is only +1 at this point every bit helps.

I also think some of the creatures being more and less threatening was a design choice, so you couldn't always rely on your 1st ed player knowledge.

Not sure any of that help but I hope you guys start to have a better time of it. I may dive in with the next adventure path, your a circus troop and that sounds silly fun.

Keep us up to date if you continue to have issues or if you think thing even out as they level up.


Page 19 and 20 of the 'demo adventure' available from Paizo is a good quick reference sheet. Until someone makes a smaller/prettier version it'd what I'd probly run off on some card stock and hand out.


From what I've read on the forums some of this stems from playing like it is still 1st ed. Both for the GM and players. GM side use some of those special abilities. Bust out with a few scratch actions to use up some of the dogs actions as well as threaten pox. Players may need to stay more on the move than they are used to. Giving up a little damage for taking fewer hits. If it seems to continue to be a problem you may also consider running the AP at one level higher for your players. Not sure any of this helps but I would be interested in how things go down the road. If you get used to it or decidr it isn't working for your group.


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With 1st ed and 3.0/3.5 we always used maps or dry/wet erase grid because it really needed. My group kept running in to issues when we tried not to because everything was so very specific on when it would or wouldn't work.

After watching the Everflame series I am impressed with how well PF2 can work theater of the mind style and would be more comfortable running that way than in previous versions.

As for other ways of running I have used an over head projector shined down on the table. It worked a treat for pre-made adventures (an adventure path in this case) as a lot of the maps were way to big to draw out at the table and could easily be panned to the next area as they explored.

I have also seen people do under table projection, and I rather liked someone else that I saw that made a small cabinet for an lcd tv so it could be put on and off the table with ease.


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If they started 2nd level shouldn't they have been 3rd when they hit the ooze? Not that that changes the outcome, just curious.


Emeric Tusan wrote:
The only spells that only went up by 1d6 either lasted more than one round or had an additional effect that they did besides damage.

Depends on the spell and circumstance. If the duration increases it probly has a secondary effect besides damage that may be desirable. You may also find yourself in a situation that you don't know a higher level spell of say, cold damage, and you find out there are creatures weak to cold up ahead, but you have a cold cantrip to boost with the appropriate prep time.

At the end of the day not all cantrips trump or even equal spells of higher levels when heightened but it gives you a lot more flexibility down the road.


Have they mentioned if the errata will be incorporated into the PDF and or later print volumes?


Blave wrote:
Guess that's one way to finally make ranged rogues viable :D

Actually, if you mean getting to use sneak attack, you just need a couple feats and some team work. There are no restrictions on what kind of ranged weapon (vs some restrictions to thrown) on sneak attack damage. All you need is for your target to be flat footed. Doesn't matter who, how, or why they are. One of the rogue feats already sets everyone flat footed to you round 1 already. The door is definitely their for a sniper rogue regardless of how you play flanking. ;)


Claxon wrote:
The real advantage is that a giant instinct barbarian should be using a reach weapon, so that when enlarged they now affect 15 ft away from them instead of 10 and are a better meat shield for the rest of the party.

I think that is where I got mixed up. I could have sworn I read something about large weapons having reach but I think the first giant barbarian I made used a reach weapon to double down.

You do get a rather sizable damage bonus to your rage damage though. For some reason that feels over looked in the discussions I've seen about the giant rager. +6 damage is no joke especialy since you probly started with 18 str + what ever you roll on the dice all for a -1 to hit.

I can't help but feel people forget you have to wait for your specialization damage bonus so out of the box the giant rager does more damage at the expense of less, lets call it, finesse. It is definitely the 'mongo smash' option but that can be fun too. :)


Doesn't the reach stack as well? so You'd have a 10 reach and be taking up more squares?


Barnabas Eckleworth III wrote:
The Gleeful Grognard wrote:
Barnabas Eckleworth III wrote:
I recommend Cypher System by Monte Cook Games.
will be too restrictive for the OP imo.

I can only speculate on the OP, like the other posters. It seems one of two things might be true. Either

1) RPGs aren't for you. Or
2) You might just be against pre-made scenarios. So maybe try an open ended campaign. Maybe it's more your style?

It's a tough post to reply to. I wish I could form as articulate response as the poster wrote but as you read, there seem to be a lot of contradictions that make it tricky to make suggestions. As you stated it may be the issue of pre-made adventures, but at the same time they called out that they don't have time to do up home made scenarios.

It is an interesting read and I wish there was more I could chip in to help them get in to the Table Top RPG hobby but most things they call out as 'problems' with Pathfinder weren't pathfinder specific. They are elements found in just about all rpg's.


It will be interesting to see what they do with the oracle. Compared to first ed there's not much difference between an oracle and a 2nd ed divine sorcerer. So I am very curious to see how they differentiate the two.


As to PC game style combat, you might try flipping initiative or games that do. Earthdawn for example splits initiative so the person who rolled worst declares their actions, once all actions are declared they are resolved best initiative down so lower initiative combatants may no longer have valid actions and have to abort to a less effective option.


There doesn't appear to be one so the duration is until you pass a save that reduces slowed to 0 as far as I can tell.


PS: There are also examples up for the critical hit deck. of the two I'd only use the crit. hit deck but even that is only if my players demanded it. From what I can tell the critical hit deck has a lot of conditions and complications, the fumble deck can strait up kill players. Consistant bleed damage, knocked unconcious, auto fail next save, etc. not things that make me go 'oo, that will be fun for my players'


If you go to the item entry in the paizo store they have examples up including the rules card. it appears to only be intended for use on natural 1's


Anyone working on a Scarred Lands for PF2? Seems they're making 5th ed over at Onyx Path but I think it would be nice to see a PF2 edition.


Nice thanks. Rather surprised to see someone who likes a gm screen. may have to check it out. My experience has been gm screens are a bit rubbish at anything other than being a screen.


Any tips for folks looking to run their first PF2 session?


Aren't the tags also based on pc level? A moderate encounter wouldn't be moderate a level or two up or down. I figured with the new system the adventure writers should always know the current level of the party since it is a flat amount of xp.


Fantastic. Thanks. though the lazy man in me still wishes they'd just put the numbers in that bax instead of a tag to look up! ;)


I've been pondering running an adventure for a new group so I picked up the Plaguestone adventure to take a look at how 2nd edition adventures are laid out by paizo. After looking through it a bit I noticed what seems to be a lack of xp for combat encounter. Non combat encounters had xp listed in the text but I didn't see anything for the battles. Is it just assumed we'll run the numbers ala the system for making your own encounters in the core book. (which appears to, for example, give the very first encounter 100 or so xp) or are my eyes just skipping over the XP reward for defeating the bad guys? Thanks!


doesn't this phantom bonus work to the players advantage more often than not? From what I've read so far in the book and seen on some live streams the PC's roll more vs enemy DC's than the other way around.


Hmm, I'm not quite sure that tracks. doesn't that assume the lowest you can roll is a 1? If so you still fail because the 1 tanks your result down one level.


So, just to clarify for us simple folks. How does the person rolling get a free +1? That statement makes no sense. My perception is +8, the DC is 18, what about that gives the person rolling against it a +1? It's is just a target number.


I agree with Puksone in that we could use a bit more information about the encounter to comment to your specific experience but here's my 2 cents:

Also I have noticed that when creating a combat encounter 'by the book' the lower floor of mooks is higher in beginning. If that is by design or just happenstance I don't know but as you near level 5 you 'should' start seeing mooks being less and less effective. when building an encounter you can go as far down as party level -4 to fill out the rank and file. The lowest level creature I've seen are -1 so at first level you are limited to fighting at least a 'lackey' class opponent vs low-mid power lackey and low power lackey. So at least at first blush you do have to do a little character growth before you start to really feel the hero vibes but you should get their.


I vote barbarian. The new instincts (imo) give them a lot of flavor to RP and definately make you wall between the rogue and bard until the rogue can get in to flanking position with you and fighter. And heaven help whom ever you and the fighter flank. I get a 'keep off my lawn' vibe from your description and instincts such as animal or dragon could easily be tied to local rumor about the 'monster in the cave' etc. And you can always throw in a little multi class down the road if your attitude toward the outside world changes or you want to change up your tactics.


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Two of things I hated most when running D&D and PF1st. I've been digging more and more in to things I didn't care for from 1st and after going through several searches of the Monster book it seems Attribute damage and level grain have been removed from the game. Fantastic if true. Energy drain is still in but works differently though can be a bit scary but I've not found any actual attribute damaging abilities. did I miss something or can I celebrate the removal of a couple more things that used to frustrate me?


New to PF2 and was looking in to ranger two weapon fighting today. The Impossible Flurry feat/action would it be at 10 or 6 with a Flurry Hunters Edge? I assume 6 but the base rules max at 10 so I wanted to double check. thanks!


I'm considering running a game at a local game store to see if there are any local players interested in doing a longer PF2 campaign. Since this would be an open game and new to everyone I just want to use plague stone as a quick and simple start point. I don't know how many people I might get though so I was wondering if anyone has seen or uses any quick rules of thumb for more than 4 players? Add 1 critter per player, add X amount of hit points to single encounter creatures, etc. And visa/versa if I only ended up with 1 or 2 but they still wanted to give it a go can I easily downgrade encounters or is it just best to add in NPC characters to round out the 4? I've poked around a bit on the forums and the SRD but didn't find any answers I liked. Any input and/or ideas are welcome. Thanks!


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Levi wrote:

OH?

We definitely are, non of us saw that line anywhere.

That would skew the math to a much better place, he's still going to get tripped 55% of the time currently, but he could in theory get that down to 40% fairly easily.

It is a small line at the very end of the ditty on savings throws. "The DC for a saving throw is 10 + the total modifier for that saving throw."


So, silly question, but I can't quite get it out of my head. If you rage and do positive do you heal living beings instead of hurting them? I assume not but everywhere in the core positive energy 'appears' be tied with healing and visa versa (opposite for negative)


That is what I was getting but just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. Thanks!


Just a quick double check. there isn't any adjustment to weapon stats in 2ed for size just bulk and cost? So the main thing the giant instinct barbarian gets is the reach? I looked for info on changing the damage die for size but didn't find anything.


They do seem to read as three distinct effects of the spell to me as well. "The unarmed attack becomes a +1 striking unarmed attack, gaining a +1 item bonus to attack rolls and increasing the number of damage dice to two" Only one of those three things is called an item bonus. At least that is how I'd rule it at the table if I were to run a game.

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