If you Crit when using Channel Smite does that effect both the regular damage and the damage from the spell (Harm/Heal)?
As far as I can tell, the added negative/positive Damage is doubled.
Benefits you gain
specifically from a critical hit, like the flaming weapon
rune’s persistent fire damage or the extra damage die
from the fatal weapon trait, aren’t doubled.
The only damage that is not doubled on a critical hit are those that are triggered by the critical hit.
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Thanks, one last question I had I was wondering if feats such as Harming Hands would apply to Channel Smite?
Interesting Channel Smite doesn't have the attack trait, so one could Trip with a Scythe and then Channel Smite with no MAP. That is a nice little boost to a struggling Channel Smite.
If MAP applied that would be weak sauce. I think as it currently stands it's probably intended.
Huh. It for sure does not have the attack trait. That seems like a typo. I also just realized that neither heal or harm have the attack trait either. This too feels like an oversite.
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You have to be making some kind of check/roll in order to use or contribute to MAP. Heal/harm don't make any checks; instead the target gets a save.
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Subordinate Actions
An action might allow you to use a simpler action—usually one of the Basic Actions on page 469—in a different circumstance or with different effects. This subordinate action still has its normal traits and effects, but is modified in any ways listed in the larger action. For example, an activity that tells you to Stride up to half your Speed alters the normal distance you can move in a Stride. The Stride would still have the move trait, would still trigger reactions that occur based on movement, and so on. The subordinate action doesn’t gain any of the traits of the larger action unless specified. The action that allows you to use a subordinate action doesn’t require you to spend more actions or reactions to do so; that cost is already factored in.Using an activity is not the same as using any of its subordinate actions. For example, the quickened condition you get from the haste spell lets you spend an extra action each turn to Stride or Strike, but you couldn’t use the extra action for an activity that includes a Stride or Strike. As another example, if you used an action that specified, “If the next action you use is a Strike,” an activity that includes a Strike wouldn’t count, because the next thing you are doing is starting an activity, not using the Strike basic action.
MAP applies. This is not ambiguous, but a defined rules nesting.
If MAP applies that makes me rethink my entire build, and the Warpriest just lost more power and quiet possibly not viable.
Yeah, you'll notice basically all of the abilities that say "you take a strike" don't have the attack trait. I didn't realize that until I took a closer look. If you're doing smite, you probably only want to be making one attack per round. Also, if you're able to get access to true strike, it becomes a lot more appealing.
Indeed, how much is a re-roll really worth? Roughly +3? +4?
Additionally, what that means I guess is that with Harm+Castdown then attack that attack action would be at a -5? If so, that is terribad.
Your correct.
I believe this is accounted for in Subordinate Actions:
Subordinate Actions
An action might allow you to use a simpler action—usually
one of the Basic Actions on page 469—in a different
circumstance or with different effects. This subordinate
action still has its normal traits and effects, but is modified
in any ways listed in the larger action. For example, an
activity that tells you to Stride up to half your Speed
alters the normal distance you can move in a Stride. The
Stride would still have the move trait, would still trigger
reactions that occur based on movement, and so on. The
subordinate action doesn’t gain any of the traits of the
larger action unless specified. The action that allows you to
use a subordinate action doesn’t require you to spend more
actions or reactions to do so; that cost is already factored in.
Using an activity is not the same as using any of its
subordinate actions. For example, the quickened condition
you get from the haste spell lets you spend an extra action
each turn to Stride or Strike, but you couldn’t use the extra
action for an activity that includes a Stride or Strike. As
another example, if you used an action that specified, “If the
next action you use is a Strike,” an activity that includes a
Strike wouldn’t count, because the next thing you are doing
is starting an activity, not using the Strike basic action.
Channel Smite itself does not have the Attack Trait, but the Strike within the Channel Smite does. So it does contribute to MAP. As does the individual Attacks of the Monks Flurry of Blows and other similar activities.
I still think it's weird that Heal/Harm do not gain the Attack Trait when used as an attack. Especially the 1 action versions.
Edit: Should definitely check that nobody else quotes the Rules before I post. Sorry Hammerjack.
God knows why they don't make things more clear. Should just slap an attack trait on the thing so noobs don't need to go through each page of the rulebook finding obscure excerpts.
If Heal/Harm had the attack trait that would be savage.
Would Replenishment of War apply to Channel Smite? Or does is strictly only apply to Basic Strikes?
Replenishment of War: "When you damage a creature with a Strike using your deity’s favored weapon..."
Yes. It would apply to subordinate action Strike too. So Channel Smite, or even Spellstrike if you got that.
Flurry of Blows would be interesting. If you hit with both Strike actions, you would gain the temporary HP twice, but temporary HP don't stack. It would at least give you two chances to succeed at the strike though.
Edit: Or maybe some really strange edge case where an enemy reacts to being hit by hitting back. The Temp HP from the first strike of FoB would get reduced and then your second hit would land and replenish the Temp HP.
Depending on GM ruling of order of reactions, of course.
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God knows why they don't make things more clear. Should just slap an attack trait on the thing so noobs don't need to go through each page of the rulebook finding obscure excerpts.
If Channel Smite had the Attack Trait and as Strike has the Attack Trait it would increase MAP twice.
God knows why they don't make things more clear. Should just slap an attack trait on the thing so noobs don't need to go through each page of the rulebook finding obscure excerpts.If Channel Smite had the Attack Trait and as Strike has the Attack Trait it would increase MAP twice.
Agreed.
And it wouldn't work to have the Attack trait not mean anything if it is on an activity like Channel Smite because then Spell Attack roll spells with the Attack trait would have their Attack trait ignored since spellcasting is an activity too.
And it wouldn't work to put the Attack trait on the activity and have the Attack trait ignored on the subordinate actions. It would account correctly only for activities such as Channel Smite that only attack once. It wouldn't work for Flurry of Blows that attacks twice. Or Impossible Volley that attacks an unspecified number of times.
So there isn't an ideal way of defining this if we don't use that subordinate actions will still use all of their traits as normal - including the Attack trait.