What would an Intelligence, Wisdom, or Constitution based Rogue Racket look like?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


Basically title. Rogues have the most options for what their primary ability score should be, and seem to be set up to allow for more in the future. What would these hypothetical new ones look like?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Wis could be a "wait for an opening" type Perception-based Racket. It might be built around making better use of Prepared Actions. Could be something like "Treat enemies as Flat-Footed while they're taking actions with the Manipulate or Concentrate traits."

Int is probably something like the old Investigator Studied Combat class feature, maybe riding off of the Recall information action. Something like "When you successfully Recall Information about a specific creature you can see, treat them as flat-footed for 1 minute, or until you hit them with a Sneak Attack."

Dunno about Con though, maybe some sort of reactive style like Wis, but based on enemies attacking you?


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Salamileg wrote:
Basically title. Rogues have the most options for what their primary ability score should be, and seem to be set up to allow for more in the future. What would these hypothetical new ones look like?

An intelligence 'Mastermind' rogue who got lackeys who functioned like animal companions or something and she commanded them in battle would be neat. A pain to balance and probably not worth the effort, but that would be entertaining.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

con could be like a poisoner or something.

Grand Lodge

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(Basing these a bit after what others have already said)
Int-
Mastermind: Your brilliant planning pushes you to make the smart decision. You can be a lieutenant in an underground gang planning heists, or be the guard captain in charge of maintaining a city's defense.

You quickly study your opposition, planning on how to best take them down. When you roll Initiative, select one target you are aware of. You may make a Recall Knowledge check against that target as a free action. If you succeed or critically succeed, that target is flat-footed to you during your first round of combat. You may continue making Recall Knowledge checks as normal against an individual target; each time you succeed, they are flat-footed to your next attack in that same round. If you critically succeed, they are flat-footed to you until the end of your turn.

You are trained in Society and one other skill of your choice- choose from Arcana, Nature, Religion, or Occultism. You may choose Int as your key ability score.

Wis-
Opportunist: You're diligent and don't mind waiting for the perfect opening to exploit your opponents. You might be a patient martial artist who has been trained to spot weaknesses in others, or a stealthy ambusher waiting for the right moment.

When a creature is flat-footed due to Surprise Attack, that creature also takes a -1 penalty to their Reflex saves and DC, as well as their Fortitude save DC against Grapple and Shove maneuvers. In addition, whenever a creature critically misses you in combat and that creature is within your weapon's reach, you may take a reaction to Strike that opponent.

You are trained in Survival and Acrobatics. You may choose Wis as your key ability score.

Con-
Bulwark: You're a sturdy force to be reckoned with. You might be a bouncer, or a front line soldier on the battlefield.

Your bulk has the ability to make others feel the pain you absorb and unbalance them. When you are critically hit with a melee attack, as a reaction you may make a fortitude save vs a Hard DC based on the creature's level (See table 10-5) or their class DC, whichever is higher. On a success, the creature takes damage equal to twice the number of weapon dice that was dealt to you, or three times on a critical success. Regardless if you succeed at the fortitude save or not, the creature is then flat-footed to you until the end of your next turn.

You are trained in Athletics, and can choose Con as your key ability score.


I'm guessing that we will basically get an Int-based Rogue with the introduction of the Investigator.


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I kinda like the idea of an int based racket being about tax fraud.


A scout or lookout might make sense for Wisdom.

Scout was an archetype I frequently used for my rogues in PF1.

Intelligence would work well with a forger - using the society skill. But mastermind is also a good suggestion.

Constitution is hard, as the ability isn’t used for much other than hit points and fortitude. Poisoner was the first thing that occurred to me, but why does a skilled poisoner have a high con? - are they intentionally poisoning themselves? ... this doesn’t seem very skilled.

Both of the things con is used for are generally reactive, rather than active.
Given how infrequently and carefully they did con based classes in PF1 I would not be surprised to never see a con based rogue.


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Ramanujan wrote:

A scout or lookout might make sense for Wisdom.

Scout was an archetype I frequently used for my rogues in PF1.

Intelligence would work well with a forger - using the society skill. But mastermind is also a good suggestion.

Constitution is hard, as the ability isn’t used for much other than hit points and fortitude. Poisoner was the first thing that occurred to me, but why does a skilled poisoner have a high con? - are they intentionally poisoning themselves? ... this doesn’t seem very skilled.

Both of the things con is used for are generally reactive, rather than active.
Given how infrequently and carefully they did con based classes in PF1 I would not be surprised to never see a con based rogue.

The dread pirate Roberts took poison every day to build up an immunity so he could more effectively trick his enemies into drinking poisoned beverages.

Also, most of old herbalism involved a bit of tasting and testing, so I could picture a poisoner sampling tiny doses of different poisons to better understand the effects (what might kill you in one dose will probably just make you sick for a day in a smaller dose), especially if it also helps them build an immunity.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Scout for Wisdom for sure, Mastermind for Int sounds great.


Tender Tendrils wrote:
I kinda like the idea of an int based racket being about tax fraud.

Bring on the white collar rogue.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, LO Special Edition, Lost Omens, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Intelligence Based Rogues always reminded me of the Investigator or Mastermind style of play, Phantom Thief was my favorite Archetype in PF1e. I kind of wish that Investigator came in as a Rogue Racket instead of its own class. But to each their own. :)


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

TBH I'd like to see two kinds of Int based rogue racket. A mastermind like has already been described that can leverage society.

But I'd also really like to see an arcane trickster flavored racket that gets in-class spell proficiency and some more mystical debilitating effects. Rogues can already pick up cantrips and sneak attack with spells, but you need to MC to make that work long term and I think it'd be cool to have more internal support for that build.


Intelligence based would probably focus on benefits gained from identifying creatures and non-combat skill success. Expanding weapon choice for sneak attack and applying it to creatures you'd successfully identified would be a good step.

Wisdom based, I'd improve readied actions somewhat, allowing the rogue to wait till the right moment to strike. Give them a cheaper readied action and extra reactions that can be spent on executing readied actions. This could also be a good place for a dagger thrower.

Con based is always an odd concept. Either combine in some alchemy ideas for a poisoner or fire breather, or make them extraordinarily athletic focusing on combat maneuvers, unusual movement types, and outpacing their opposition. Anything I can think of would be better covered by another class.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

OH, the con based one could also just be a drunk guy. :P

liquid courage, can buff himself with alcohol.

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