(Also the rules for grappling in this game are dumb)I am curious to know what your problems with the rules are.
The reason I don't like them is because they're not clear.
It doesn't matter who's right, you and I disagree on how they work. The grappling rules are much more involved than any other combat maneuver and to find the relevant rules we have to look in a few different places. When we get everything together there can STILL be a disagreement based on the wording.
I think if the majority (or at least a large minority) of the players can't work out a rule - or disagree on a rule - then it's a problem.
I'm curious how they handled grappling in Starfinder/PF2, but I agree that this is probably a topic for another thread.
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[spoiler*=Scott's Build]
Everything in here!
[/spoiler]
Just remove the asterisk (this one: *) just before the equal sign, and it should be good to go.
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So, the OP is trying to make an assassin character, and so far our advice has been focused on creating a character with the most devastating Full Attack in a level 6 character. This has been at the OP's request, but still, I have a concern.
You can't normally Move up to someone and then deliver a Full Attack. How do we accomplish that?
Invisibility, Greater Invisibility, or the Ninja Vanishing Trick, or just a high Stealth Check.
Dimension Door ends the round unless you take special feats that you can't get working before like 9th level.
Arcanists' Dimensional Slide does not end the turn: it's dones as part of the Move, but you still can't Full Attack after a Move Action.
If somebody else DimDoors you, then you can Full Attack on arrival. DimDoor only ends the caster's turn.
I was wondering about the option of taking Improved Familiar and getting a Familiar that can DimDoor you. So far, the only one I have been able to find is the Ratling Familiar, but they're not available until level 7.
I suspect that the OPs strategy of a perhaps-magically-assisted Stealth approach to the target followed by the devastating attack is the way to go if you are impatient to get there by level 6.
Actually my build just uses a standard action to vital strike. Still has a move action available
Anyone good at the formula to figure out % chances to hit and actual dpr?
I can do it.
I need your:
- Bonus to hit
- Damage on a non-critical hit
- Critical threat range
- Damage on a critical hit
(- if you have more than 1 attack tell me how many and what penalties each takes, eg: Four attacks, Two at full BAB, One at -5 BAB and One at -10 BAB)
So I checked through this thread, and I really like the Vital Strike build, so I think I'm going to snag your Cyclops Helm for my own use and see if I can't snag top spot in the "no buffing rounds" category. This build will use standard WBL for a 6th level character and presume no rounds for buffing, just roll for initiative and try to kill your target in 1 round (so swift/free action buffs are still fine).
Once again I'll be jousting with a lance build, this time as a Weapon Master Fighter 4 / Barbarian 2
Feats: Power Attack, Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, Weapon Focus (Lance), Advanced Weapon Training (Warrior Spirit)
Rage Power: Reckless Abandon
Equipment: +1 lance (2310 gp), +2 belt of giant strength (4000 gp), cyclops helm (5600 gp)
Strength: 28 (18 + 4 racial + 2 belt + 4 rage)
Note that the +3 enhancement bonus is coming from his Warrior Spirit ability. This allows him to, as a free action, grant his weapon any +1 equivalent property. He chooses the raging property, which increases the enhancement bonus of the weapon by +2 while he is actively raging, hence it is a +3 weapon while raging.
To Hit: +22 (6 BAB + 9 strength + 3 enhancement + 1 weapon focus + 1 weapon training + 2 Reckless Abandon + 2 charge -2 power attack)
Damage: 1d8+23 (+13 from str, +3 enhancement, +1 weapon training, +6 power attack)
24-31 damage before multipliers
Using the Cyclops Helm that guarantees a hit and a critical threat, and with +22 to hit confirmation is virtually guaranteed against most level-appropriate foes. He deals 120-155 damage on a crit (x5 multiplier) and a 72-93 damage on a regular hit (x3 multiplier). Against foes with AC 24 or lower, this averages 134.75 damage on his charge, with a minimum of 72 damage.
Notably this gives a 100% chance to OHKO most CR 6 monsters (since he doesn't even need the crit) a 95% chance to OHKO typical monsters up to CR 9. He retains a chance to OHKO a typical CR 11 monster.
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Anyone good at the formula to figure out % chances to hit and actual dpr?I can do it.
I need your:
- Bonus to hit
- Damage on a non-critical hit
- Critical threat range
- Damage on a critical hit
(- if you have more than 1 attack tell me how many and what penalties each takes, eg: Four attacks, Two at full BAB, One at -5 BAB and One at -10 BAB)
Attack: +18, 8d6+27 (average 55) crit 20x3
Vital strike: 16d6+27 (average 83)Furious focus: 123 damage (max damage, fatigued)
Cyclops helm crit furious finish vital strike: 123+16d6+54. (Average 233)
Assume using cyclops helm to auto 20 the hit and furious finish to maximize vital strike
Attack: +18, 8d6+27 (average 55) crit 20x3
Vital strike: 16d6+27 (average 83)
Furious focus: 123 damage (max damage, fatigued)
Cyclops helm crit furious finish vital strike: 123+16d6+54. (Average 233)Assume using cyclops helm to auto 20 the hit and furious finish to maximize vital strike
Against AC 19 (typical of CR 6) that gives you a 95% chance to crit and a 5% chance to hit, for 227.5 average damage
In terms of chances to OHKO a typical monster (based on guideline HP/AC):
CR 9 (or lower) = 100%
CR 10 = 70%
CR 11 = 65%
CR 12 = 55%
CR 13 = 50%
CR 14 = 45%
CR 15 = 38%
CR 16 = 6%
CR 17 = 0%
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You can't normally Move up to someone and then deliver a Full Attack. How do we accomplish that?
Invisibility, Greater Invisibility, or the Ninja Vanishing Trick, or just a high Stealth Check.So, if you take 3 levels in Bard with the Flame Dance Archetype, you can give all your allies the ability to see through fire and Smoke. It's called Song of Fiery Gaze. Then get yourself an Eversmoking Bottle or just cast Pyrotechnics, and then you cover the whole battlefield with blinding smoke that you and your allies can see through.
Also, you get your Sneak Attack Damage.
Tengu, Claws
1Brawler1: Snakebite Striker, Sneak Attack 1d6, BAB+1
2S1Bard1: Flame Dancer
3S1B2: Feat, BAB+2
4S1B3: Song of Fiery Gaze, BAB+3
5S1B3Alchemist1: Vivisectionist: Sneak Attack 1d6, Accomplished Sneak Attacker (Sneak Attack +1d6), Mutagen
6S1B3N1Cavalier1: Tactician, Precise Strike (Sneak Attack 1d6), BAB+4Figure a Helm of the Mammoth Lord so 4 Attacks/round. Bite, Gore, and 2 Claws 4d6 for Sneak Attack, so that's 16d6 for Sneak Attack Damage alone for 56 points of Damage, and that is vs. Flatfooted AC. Figure a 16 ST +2 Belt of Strength, +4 Mutagen, +2 Enlarge Person, 24 ST for a +7 Damage bonus, so that's another +28. The base Damage is 16 for the 4 attacks, so that's only 100 points of Damage, but he gives the whole party Total Cover, and Grants 1d6 Sneak Attack Damage to the whole party.
That seems like a respectable consideration.
How is precise strike triggering without an ally or solo tactics?
It occurs to me, if we're allowing UMD'ing consumables like scrolls, why aren't we using True Strike on the Vital Strike builds? Then we don't even need to care about accuracy and can focus entirely on damage output. With the use of a scroll of True Strike, I think I could go with enlarged firearms and just eat the dex penalty, so I think I'll try building that:
Goblin Trench Fighter 5 / Urban Barbarian 1
Equipment: Double Hackbut, cyclops helm, potion of cat's grace, potion of enlarge person, scroll of Named Bullet (Ranger; CL 20), Scroll of Magic Weapon (CL 20), scroll of True Strike
Dex score: 28 (18 +4 racial, +4 rage, +4 cat's grace, -2 size)
Feats: Deadly Aim, Vital Strike, Furious Finish, Advanced Weapon Training (Warrior Spirit), Goblin Gunslinger, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms)
In terms of buffing, that's Potion of Enlarge Person, Potion of Cat's Grace, Scroll of Magic Weapon, Warrior Spirit (apply Thundering Property), Scroll of Named Bullet, and lastly the scroll of True Strike. Then Rage and Cyclops Helm on the Vital Finisher attack with the (now large-sized) Double Hackbut.
To Hit: +39 (6 BAB + 9 dex +5 enhancement, +1 weapon training +20 true strike -2 Deadly Aim)
Damage: 6d6+1d8+35 (+9 dex +1 weapon training +5 enhancement +20 named shot)
Vital Strike Damage: 12d6+1d8+35 (111.5 avg on finisher)
Vital Finish Crit: 107 + 3d8 + 18d6 + 105 (288.5 avg, 233 min)
Given a 95% chance to crit and a 5% chance to hit thanks to Cyclops Helm, that gives 279.65 damage average against anything with AC 40 or lower. Unless I made a mistake somewhere (which is entirely possible, so please correct me if I made an error) I do believe that puts me in the lead. At least until someone else does something obscene with True Strike.
Also, in terms of OHKO'ing monster:
CR 8 or below: 100% chance to kill
CR 9-16: 95% chance to kill
CR 17: 94% chance to kill
CR 18: 8.75% chance to kill
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It occurs to me, if we're allowing UMD'ing consumables like scrolls, why aren't we using True Strike on the Vital Strike builds? Then we don't even need to care about accuracy and can focus entirely on damage output. With the use of a scroll of True Strike, I think I could go with enlarged firearms and just eat the dex penalty, so I think I'll try building that:
Goblin Trench Fighter 5 / Urban Barbarian 1
** spoiler omitted **
Given a 95% chance to crit and a 5% chance to hit thanks to Cyclops Helm, that gives 279.65 damage average against anything with AC 40 or lower. Unless I made a mistake somewhere (which is entirely possible, so please correct me if I made an error) I do believe that puts me in the lead. At least until someone else does something obscene with True Strike.Also, in terms of OHKO'ing monster:
CR 8 or below: 100% chance to kill
CR 9-16: 95% chance to kill
CR 17: 94% chance to kill
CR 18: 8.75% chance to kill
Doesn't enlarged not do any thing for ranged attacks?
Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature’s possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage. Magical properties of enlarged items are not increased by this spell.
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@Name Violation
The trick is that your ranged weapon was already large, and you've enlarged yourself to be able to use it.
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I kinda feel we've left the original character concept behind in pursuit of numbers. The idea was to make a playable assassin that could dish out big numbers, probably more than once per day/career.
Maybe someone should start up a DPR thread since people seem to be in the mood? It's probably best to get some rules going, though.
Like all stats are taken from the Average Monster stats document, that the build must be able to deal this kind of damage at least twice per day, rounds of buffing allowed, etc.
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Tactician. Cavaliers can, as a Standard Action, give all their allied use of their bonus Teamwork Feat for 3 Rounds
So your mount is there and flanking?
The scenario never stipulated an ally present, so your mount would have to flank to let you get the d6.
Im just looking for consistency. If you can assume a random ally is adjacent then ranged characters need to about for enemy engaged in melee
Anyone good at the formula to figure out % chances to hit and actual dpr?I can do it.
I need your:
- Bonus to hit
- Damage on a non-critical hit
- Critical threat range
- Damage on a critical hit
(- if you have more than 1 attack tell me how many and what penalties each takes, eg: Four attacks, Two at full BAB, One at -5 BAB and One at -10 BAB)Attack: +18, 8d6+27 (average 55) crit 20x3
Vital strike: 16d6+27 (average 83)
Furious focus: 123 damage (max damage, fatigued)
Cyclops helm crit furious finish vital strike: 123+16d6+54. (Average 233)Assume using cyclops helm to auto 20 the hit and furious finish to maximize vital strike
So with you +18to hit (vs AC24, hit on 6 or higher) and a Butcher's axe (crit on a 20) that looks like:
Chance to miss = 0.25
Chance to hit (no critical threat) = 0.7
Chance to get a critical threat = 0.05
(There's an extra steps but I'll try to post it later when I have a computer)
Non-critical damage = 16d6+27 (~83)
Critical damage = 32d6+81 (~191)
(Also I'm assuming Furious Finish doesn't maximize the critical hit damage, did I remember that right from up-thread?)
66.3 DPR (NO Cyplopse Helm, NO Furious Finish)
96.375 DPR (NO Cyplopse Helm, YES Furious Finish)
164 DPR (YES Cyplopse Helm, NO Furious Finish)
205.5 DPR (YES Cyclopse Helm, YES Furious Finish)
(I did all these based on attacking the OP'S 24AC enemy)
I'm curious how they handled grappling in Starfinder/PF2, but I agree that this is probably a topic for another thread.I'm not emotionally ready to learn a new gaming system, but I am curious, too.
In PF2, it's a use of the Athletics skill. 1 action, make an Athletics skill check against the opponent's Fortitude DC (this is their Fortitude save + 10), on a success they gain the grabbed condition for 1 round, on a critical success they gain the restrained condition. On a critical fail they can choose to either grab you or knock you prone. Grabbed condition prevents them from moving and makes them flat-footed, and gives a 20% chance for most kinds of actions to fail. Restrained is basically tied up.