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My recollection from the GenCon announcement is different. The way I remember it is:
Use the level 5 pregen skills for the downtime check (e.g., Ezren +11 Crafting) vs. Level-2 DC (DC 18 for level 3).
Then apply appropriate income based on the level of the character that the chronicle is applied to. At GenCon, I always assumed that to be a level 1 character, thus using (minimum) task level 0 from Table 4-2. A success gave 4 sp (1/2 sp per day), a critical success gave 16 sp (2 sp/day) and failure gave 8 cp (1 cp/day).
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When I played this (as Fumbus) and applied the credit to my 3rd level character, my GM said the "official" answer was that Campaign Leadership didn't care about the one-time earning bonus potential.How did you apply a lvl 5 chronicle to a lvl 3 character?
I thought the guide says it has to be to a lvl 1 or the level of the pregen you played?
Nope. Any level up to the level of the Pregen.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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My recollection from the GenCon announcement is different. The way I remember it is:
Use the level 5 pregen skills for the downtime check (e.g., Ezren +11 Crafting) vs. Level-2 DC (DC 18 for level 3).
Then apply appropriate income based on the level of the character that the chronicle is applied to. At GenCon, I always assumed that to be a level 1 character, thus using (minimum) task level 0 from Table 4-2. A success gave 4 sp (1/2 sp per day), a critical success gave 16 sp (2 sp/day) and failure gave 8 cp (1 cp/day).
If they're only getting the reward for the level 0 task, why are you rolling the level 3 DC?
Venture-Captain, Maryland—Baltimore
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Nope. Any level up to the level of the Pregen.When I played this (as Fumbus) and applied the credit to my 3rd level character, my GM said the "official" answer was that Campaign Leadership didn't care about the one-time earning bonus potential.How did you apply a lvl 5 chronicle to a lvl 3 character?
I thought the guide says it has to be to a lvl 1 or the level of the pregen you played?
Apply Credit
You may apply a pregenerated character’s Chronicle sheet to one of your Pathfinder Society characters once your Pathfinder Society character reaches the level of the pregenerated character used to play through it. For example, if you played a 5th-level pregenerated character, you would apply the credit once your character reaches 5th level.
Apply the Chronicle sheets for eligible adventures in the order in which they were played. For each one, add the rewards earned (Experience Points, gold pieces, Fame, boons etc.) to your character, along with any negative effects that weren’t removed from the pregenerated character. This character is also now able to buy any items listed on that Chronicle sheet.
If you apply credit for multiple adventures at once, your Pathfinder Society character might advance multiple levels. The character’s level cannot exceed the tier range of any Chronicle sheets applied to them.
You can apply credit from a higher-tier adventure to a 1st-level Pathfinder Society character. When doing so, you gain only the gold appropriate to a 1st-level character. You do not benefit from any boons until your Pathfinder Society character reaches the minimum level listed on the Chronicle sheet, unless otherwise noted.Where are you reading that it can be applied to any level?
The chronicle sheet for 1-00 scenario says it can be applied at any level 1-5. It's not the general rule, but it's right in this case.
Special: This adventure was designed for use with pregenerated characters. You can assign this Chronicle sheet to any character of levels 1–5 who does not already have a copy of this Chronicle sheet.
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Personally, I'd be happiest to see a change/clarification for 1-00 (and by extension any chronicle earned while playing a pre-gen), that it follows the GM guidelines -- roll/spend the downtime when you apply the chronicle. Likely requiring a GM/VO to oversee/initial. Its not perfect, but its a small amount of book-keeping that would likely happen at the first session you attend with the character -- it does mean you might have a small amount of gold you can't pre-spend while building the character.
The other option that feels simple/easy, is when generating a pre-gen based chronicle w/o a built-character ready to receive it, just give an auto-success on earn-income for the level-2 task/reward.
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Why wouldn’t you apply the total immediately? You roll the 5th level pregen bonus against the 5th level DCs and then award the failure/success/crit success total for the level of the character receiving it. If it’s being held until the character reaches 5th, it’s the 5th level total, if it’s a 1st level character you apply the 1st level total.
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I really take issue with the claim that this is "forcing the player to lock themselves into a decision".
This is a *bonus* above and beyond what's usually available.
If someone decides not to utilize it, they're not out anything.
It's like showing up to the tail-end of a bake sale, seeing that they're giving away what's left, and not liking what the options are. Nobody's forcing you to eat the coconut macaroons.
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The most important question that hasn't been answered is why not just do it the same way we do for a GM who has no pregen stats to use? How is that not the most equitable, fair, and new-player friendly way to handle this?
No one who is responding can give you the answer. I think it is fair to say that clarification is needed. I agree with you on how to handle the pregen question.
So can we stop beating this poor dead horse before the local union finds us and wait for the guide to be updated?
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I think it would be easier if GMs and players used the same rule for "held" credit. Deciding how to use downtime and what you earn from it when you apply, not when you assign the chronicle, makes a lot of sense.
Of course in the case of Origins, you would be applying it immediately, and you might not have a character yet. The same applies if you apply pregen credit to a fresh new uncreated L1 character.
Another issue is that someone has to witness the roll. It feels a bit strange to me for the GM to witness their own rolls. I'd be more comfortable using a Take 10 for that.
Another issue is that if you process downtime when you apply a held chronicle, that might be a bunch of held chronicles. For example if you had three chronicles held from when you played a L3 pregen, and you just reach level 3, then you're applying three chronicles. That's a lot of downtime decisions that the GM has to oversee while people are trying to hustle out of the store or to the next slot. But I think most of them could be done "unattended" if you can Take 10 on checks in downtime.
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How about we eliminate the saved chronicle aspect. When you play using a pregen, you receive a chronicle that is prorated for the level of your actual character and immediately applied. The wealth mechanic is now a fixed table. If your character is lower level than the pregen (expected otherwise you would have just played the PC) adjust the rewards to applicable levels. Have the player resolve their earned income or crafting using the assigned character’s stats at their level. Any item access or boons are not available until the character reaches a level which would make them legal to have played the scenario.
This can easily be adapted to the GM as well. They receive the maximum gold award applicable to their actual PC’s level. As a reward for GMing for other people, they receive earned income based on an auto success so they don’t need to resolve someone watching them roll. Same goes fo a crafting check. They auto succeed. They give up the chance for a critical success but avoid a failure or crit fail.
Simple. Easy-peasy.
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Venture-Captain, Australia—WA—
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Hopefully, something will come out in writing. When at Skaalcon I asked Tonya about 1-00 earned income specifically because I had seen and heard multiple variants. She consulted (by phone?) with others on the team and the response when I checked back before issuing chronicles was:
1) If being held to apply at 5th level then roll using the pregen's stats and note it on the chronicle.
2) If applying to a current character then roll using the character's stats for their level. (normal game rules)
3) If applying to a character that does not yet exist, hold and roll with the character's stats when actually applying the chronicle.
I simply noted in the downtime box that they could roll for downtime when applying the character and signed it.
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Huh.
#1 would be a mess if, by the time you applied the Chronicle, you were already in the middle of Crafting something else.
#2 would be hard to do if you didn't have your character with you (which I did not; the table I was GMing folded and I helped make a 1-00 session legal).
I could have guessed his Crafting bonus, I suppose, but that definitely doesn't sound like a sustainable practice for everyone.
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The limits as to what can be purchased conflict in the Player Basics section and the Organized Play Basics (level or lower in one section, level+2 or lower in the other)
This one is a HUGE problem and came up at my tables today when a third level character had a 4th level item and was able to point to the part of the guide that said (in what I think is a typo) that he could buy anything of his level +2. Even though it says something very different elsewhere as noted in the quote.
It can cause a mess if another GM previously allowed it, agreed. But for your session, with conflicting and contradicting rules at hand, you get to adjudicate which rule stands and which one is a typo in your opinion.
As a compromise, I'd probably rule that the game procedes as if the runes aren't on the weapons, while I send the issue "up the ranks" to my VC to adjudicate whether the characters need to sell the runes (at a loss), don't get to use the weapons until the right level, keep them on runestones in the meantime, backtrack and undo the purchase or - possibly - I'm wrong and they get to keep using them in the next adventure.
But for the current adventure, the GMs decision is the decisive one.
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On a more general note, something is clearly going very wrong at an organizational level in society at the moment that they have been unable to update and fix the still very much beta-looking guide in more than six weeks, with the previous updates also being mostly cosmetic in nature.
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I still think the intention was to follow close to how Starfinder works... So I just follow what the guide says in the section the actually describes purchasing rules not other parts of the guide.
You can always purchase the following items so long as you’re in a settlement of at least 5,000 residents (and scenarios may sometimes provide additional allowances or limitations):
Any common equipment in sanctioned Pathfinder content with an item level equal to or less than your character’s level (minimum 2).
Any uncommon equipment in sanctioned Pathfinder content with an item level equal to or less than your character’s level (minimum 2); your character must have access to this uncommon equipment such as through meeting its Access condition.
Any equipment listed on your character’s Chronicle sheets with an item level equal to or less than your character’s level + 2. Some items found on Chronicle sheets are available for purchase only a limited number of times.
Any items and services purchased with Fame.
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That doesn't work for a first time PFS player who is using a pre-gen.
Sure it does, they get a 1st level chronicle which is appropriate for their character.
Or...a GM who hasn't created the character it is to be assigned, right?
Same. If you haven’t created a character, then it’s a 1st level chronicle.
Again, simple. Easy-peasy
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Personally, although I think I already stated this, I believe the rules for #1-00 are the best practice we've probably ever had. Apply to any character within range, and use the Pregen's stats for the Downtime check.
Avoids "holding" the Chronicle, worrying about character stats, and worrying about interrupting whatever the character might have been in the middle of doing.
Please, let's do this going forward. The possible extra cash that you might earn by rolling a crit success isn't overpowering, and will help make these pregen scenarios more attractive.
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Play-by-Post, yes, you'd have to hold it, but you're going to know what Downtime you're doing, because you roll for that when you sign-in.
You are not going to be holding a Chronicle for a character in PbP because you're in PbP because you cannot run the same character number in two simultaneous sessions. I.e. you cannot be running 2001 in a PbP run of 1-02 and while in the middle of that play 1-03 at a Con with a pregen for credit to be assigned to your 2001.
EDIT: I just realized what thread I was in. This discussion on this specific topic of downtime on pregens/held chronicles should go to it's own thread so this remains focused on feedback for the guide in function.
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Too large and broken up to quote.
The situation Nefreet was describing and that I responded to is different than the situation you're describing.
Bringing up that the guide doesn't address it is appropriate. But we now have 44+ posts specifically on how best it should be implemented, which derails this thread.
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When can we expect to have "Pathfinder Lost Omens World Guide" appear on the "Character Options" page - http://www.organizedplayfoundation.org/encyclopedia/pathfinder-2-0-characte r-options/ ?It's still undergoing review. Expect it to take at the very least a couple more weeks. Things are unfortunately a bit hectic.
Theese weeks have come and gone several times over now. Does anyone have any further insights into this matter?