Feedback: PFS (2nd edition) Guide to Play


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Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

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Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Micheal Smith wrote:
"Day job is the same thing as Earn Income. This term derives from 1E and jhas the same concept."

They don't work at all the same, though.

Day Jobs in PFS1 were rolled once, couldn't be combined with other Downtime activities, utilized a chart that only existed in the PFS1 Guide, and you could only roll Craft or Profession as the default.

Checks to Earn Income in PFS2 can be rolled multiple times if you have enough Downtime blocks, can be combined with other Downtime activities, utilize rules from the Core Rulebook, and you can roll Lore in addition to Crafting or Profession as the defaults.

By the time you've had to explain the differences, why bother including it at all?

Liberty's Edge 3/5 Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

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There is no reason to introduce a 1e term into the 2e guide.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

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Nefreet wrote:
Micheal Smith wrote:
"Day job is the same thing as Earn Income. This term derives from 1E and jhas the same concept."

They don't work at all the same, though.

Day Jobs in PFS1 were rolled once, couldn't be combined with other Downtime activities, utilized a chart that only existed in the PFS1 Guide, and you could only roll Craft or Profession as the default.

Checks to Earn Income in PFS2 can be rolled multiple times if you have enough Downtime blocks, can be combined with other Downtime activities, utilize rules from the Core Rulebook, and you can roll Lore in addition to Crafting or Profession as the defaults.

By the time you've had to explain the differences, why bother including it at all?

Wow I love how you can boil down the answer so effectively. I have been trying to express this very point without much success. THANK YOU!

1/5

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Minor point: Performance can also be used to Earn Income. (And I believe Perform(x) could also be used during a Day Job check, though that's neither here nor there).

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

D'oh!

The Exchange 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

Can we please not bring this argument into yet another thread? As Tonya says in the first post, they are going to use this thread to identify places where the Guide needs upgrades or improvements. “How using Downtime to Earn Income works” has been identified as a problem point. Arguing over what term to use isn’t doing anything but clutter up the thread.

4/5

7 people marked this as a favorite.

Monday Presents!

Hi everyone. I know we have been pretty quiet for the last few weeks. Our team has been busy working with the goblins at paizo, negotiating how we are going to transition parts of the site over to our control. There has been much bartering of birds and shiny objects.

In the mean time, we have also been listening to requests. While we wait to hear back from the server goblins, I have gone through and dealt with one of the things that has been most bothering me, and some of you as well. The Faction Boons Page has had a major formatting update.

Other Stuff

I would like to second the request to keep arguments out of this thread. It is hard enough to keep up to date with.

I plan to go through and do some minor updates to the rest of the pages dealing with things like the Fiji misspelling in the next few days. But I have to work that in around the rest of my schedule. So please be patient.

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

Question.

Guide > GM Basics > Challenge Points wrote:
Some adventures have only one subtier. For these adventures, use the challenge point system to determine any adjustments. If the table would direct you to run the high subtier, instead run the adventure with the level bump and the 6-player adjustment.

If an adventure has only one subtier, say 1-2. Are the L2 characters "second-lowest" (3CP) or "highest" (6CP)?

A table of 6 L2 characters would be either 18 or 42 CP. The text then goes on to say that if you get pushed to high tier (which doesn't exist) instead you should go 6-player adjustment and a level bump, which seems exactly right for 6 PCs who are all a level higher than the ground floor.

With 18 CP you would end up exactly at "high tier", with 42 CP you'd get "6 players, level bump, high tier". Which is not actually doable because you can't apply the 6-player adjustment twice and doing two level bumps to the adventure also doesn't make much sense. So I'm fairly sure you should be using the "second lowest" CP value.

But it would probably be good to be much more explicit about that.

4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Skittermanders

I would like to also announce that we have recruited a team of helpful team of skittermanders to assist with this endeavor. They are currently engaged in checking links, proofing content, and ensuring that the new, improved version of the site will be as fully accessible as possible, including cross device, cross browser compatible, as well as compatible with assistive technology, such as screen readers.

As you can imagine, this involves quite a lot of work, in some cases very specialized work, and I would like to publicly thank those who have donated their time and expertise.

4/5

Lau Bannenberg wrote:

Question.

Guide > GM Basics > Challenge Points wrote:
Some adventures have only one subtier. For these adventures, use the challenge point system to determine any adjustments. If the table would direct you to run the high subtier, instead run the adventure with the level bump and the 6-player adjustment.

If an adventure has only one subtier, say 1-2. Are the L2 characters "second-lowest" (3CP) or "highest" (6CP)?

A table of 6 L2 characters would be either 18 or 42 CP. The text then goes on to say that if you get pushed to high tier (which doesn't exist) instead you should go 6-player adjustment and a level bump, which seems exactly right for 6 PCs who are all a level higher than the ground floor.

With 18 CP you would end up exactly at "high tier", with 42 CP you'd get "6 players, level bump, high tier". Which is not actually doable because you can't apply the 6-player adjustment twice and doing two level bumps to the adventure also doesn't make much sense. So I'm fairly sure you should be using the "second lowest" CP value.

But it would probably be good to be much more explicit about that.

The table is based off comparing the PCs to the lowest legal tier. Pretty clearly, it should be second lowest. Otherwise 2 level 1, and 2 level 2 would play with a level bump and a 6 player adjustment, which is obviously not the intent.

We are currently working on clarifying language.

2/5

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Thank you. The boons look much better/easier to scan.

Dark Archive 3/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Colorado—Denver aka masterslate

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Thanks for the table format updates on the Faction Boons! I no longer need to do really terrible one-off parsing of different items on that table to make the PDF nice and shiney!

Grand Lodge 5/5 ⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

Thank you so much for all the formatting and other improvements!

Hmm

2/5

Thank youuuu~! :)

Silver Crusade 5/5 ⦵⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Indiana—Southern aka CanisDirus

Thank you for the formatting upgrades! Now that I can read this page without getting a headache, I'm noticing a few things that I'd like to recommend get your "Disclaimer / may not work" note:

* Adversary Lore: "While this boon is slotted" (boon does not list what slot it occupies)
* Promotional Accessory: "such as XX" (boon can't really be used until OPF team determines what XX is)
* Resist Corruption: "While this boon is slotted" (boon does not list what slot it occupies)

Also one minor note:
* Exemplary Recruiter has "-" listed for boon type in the chart, but "slotless" in its description.

And one Super super minor note:
* Swift Traveler has slightly different formatting than the rest of the boons on the page.

Again, thank you tons for your work on this!!!

1/5

Mike Bramnik wrote:

* Adversary Lore: "While this boon is slotted" (boon does not list what slot it occupies)
* Resist Corruption: "While this boon is slotted" (boon does not list what slot it occupies)

Is there any reason to assume they wouldn't occupy a Generic Slot?

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I think, since many of us are used to the Boon *types* from Starfinder (Ally, Social, Slotless, etc), Pathfinder should go just with *tags*, to make things clearly different.

You can slot 5 of the same type of Boon, if you wanted, which is something you can't do in Starfinder.

Get rid of types all together, and clarify that you may only slot one Boon with the Faction, Promotional, or Advanced tag.

The Exchange 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

I mentioned the redundancy with the advanced boon slot earlier, and clearly the other slots are confusing as well. I’m going to try not to devolve into debate, so I’ll just summarize the concern here. According to the Guide you get:
1 Faction Boon slot which can only hold a boon with the Faction tag
1 Advanced Slot which can hold either a boon with the Advanced tag or any generic boon.
3 Generic slots which can hold any boon that does not have the Advanced or Faction tag.

but it takes a lot of text to say that. Please streamline the text to make it more understandable. How about:

Quote:
PCs gain boons either as rewards on a chronicle or by purchasing boons from Pathfinder Society factions (link). At the start of an adventure, each player can choose up to five of their character’s boons to use during that adventure - a process known as “slotting boons.” You may choose no more than one boon with the Faction tag, and may choose no more than one boon with the Advanced tag. Other tags are only restricted by the total number of slots available (five). Boons with the Slotless tag do not need to be chosen at the start of an adventure to be usable during that adventure.

I didn’t write that intending to imply it is definitive. There is definitely a lot of room for opinion and clarification here, some of which depends on exactly what the OrgPlay intends. Two things that immediately pop out: is slotting a Faction tagged boon required? (currently no, but you can’t use that slot for anything else) Can you slot multiple promotional boons? (currently yes) The issue is identified. Let’s discuss the particulars (what should and shouldn’t be required/allowed) in another thread.

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Kevin Willis wrote:
Can you slot multiple promotional boons? (currently yes)

Not arguing, but this is currently disallowed in the Guide.

You can slot only one boon with the promotional trait at the same time.

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Kevin Willis wrote:
Let’s discuss the particulars (what should and shouldn’t be required/allowed) in another thread.

Here you go!

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento aka FLite

Kevin Willis wrote:


Vault Delver capstone: this may just be me missing something but this doesn’t look like a capstone. Why would anyone spend 8 Fame to give another character access to an uncommon item when you can bequeath any uncommon option - including items - for 4 Fame (and at an earlier level, to boot) with the Bequeathal boon? Is this the right level/cost?

Bequethal, you give up access to the option to give another character access.

Vault delver, both characters get access.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

This is the strangest feedback I've given on something like this in some time, but: the sans-serif font used is for some reason displaying lowercase "i" as an uppercase, which looks like a sans-serif "l", leading me to read things like "Radlant Oath" and "Herolc Insplratlon."

It's super weird?

4/5

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GreatGraySkwid wrote:

This is the strangest feedback I've given on something like this in some time, but: the sans-serif font used is for some reason displaying lowercase "i" as an uppercase, which looks like a sans-serif "l", leading me to read things like "Radlant Oath" and "Herolc Insplratlon."

It's super weird?

It is something we are aware of, and are looking into solutions. In the mean time, as a (unpleasant) work around, the problem seems to resolve if you enlarge the page by 10%.

We do not yet have any control over the font choice, unless we want to start hand coding content.

And no one wants us to start doing that...

Dark Archive 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm not finding an answer to a couple of questions, that should be very straightforward.

I'm assuming that GMs continue to be able to receive chronicle sheets for adventures run, but I can't find the language anywhere. Can someone please confirm and/or direct me to the right place?

In the same vein, do GMs get downtime between adventures? Is there some standard we should follow if there is not yet a character built to take the slot?

Dark Archive 1/5

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CigarPete wrote:

I'm assuming that GMs continue to be able to receive chronicle sheets for adventures run, but I can't find the language anywhere. Can someone please confirm and/or direct me to the right place?

The guide assumes that you read all the subpages in order. Simply checking the GM section, for example, won't give you the full picture, so searching for rules can be a bit tedious.

Organized Play Basics
Organized Play Basics - Replaying Adventures wrote:
You can receive a Chronicle sheet for a given adventure twice: once for playing the adventure and once for running the adventure as a GM—even if you run the adventure multiple times, though each time you GM an adventure contributes to your GM glyph rating and rewards.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Australia—NSW—Newcastle aka Tim Schneider 908

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Online Guide Team Lead - JTT wrote:
It is something we are aware of, and are looking into solutions. In the mean time, as a (unpleasant) work around, the problem seems to resolve if you enlarge the page by 10%.

Seems like the font doesn't like 22px font size while bold - odd quirk, even 1px bigger works. If you have control of the CSS you can just swap the h3 font size to 1.4375rem (23px) rather than 1.375rem (22px) and it works - but I guess if you can't change the font you probably can't change that either yet.

It may have bothered me enough that I set up a local style-sheet to make that adjustment & it works :P

4/5

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More Monday Presents

We have gone through with the help of the Skittermanders and clarified the Boons System a little bit. As of now, all the rules for boons are contained on the player page. Only the rules that apply specifically to boons purchased using fame are now on the faction boon page (such as your first champion boon being free.)

We added some Special: tags to certain boons as reminders of special rules for those boons. (Such as only one promotional boon at a time.) While we recognize that this is redundant, it is a useful reminder if people are printing out their characters boons.

We have also removed the dangling "such as" from the Promotional Vestments boon. I hope to get a clarified list from the OP coordinator, until then, GMs should use their judgement and err on the side of generosity. As noted by others, it is a relatively minor boon, and should be easy to qualify for.

A word on Monday Presents.

I am trying to keep updates to mondays to make things easier for our brave compilers who are pulling together PDFs and so on. I can't promise there will be an update every monday, and obviously if it is something critical, I will have it up as soon as possible.

But I will try to give people a bit of joy every monday if I can.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Based on what I've been seeing in the games I've played, this wording in the Earn Income section could use clarification:

"The Task Level of your Earn Income check is equal to your level – 2 (minimum 0) by default (GMs should check Table 10–5: DCs by Level on page 503 of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook to calculate the DC)".

The first sentence uses "level" for both Task level and PC level, and then says to look up "DCs by Level". I've had GMs use both task level (giving first level characters a DC of 14) and PC level (giving a DC of 15 at first level).

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