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I've read novels based on ttrpg worlds where each sentence in an interaction between two people or two groups of people can be decoded for the exact rules from that rpg. You can tell from the description which dice rolls failed, and can often tell when the character rolled a crit.
Following the basic mechanics in their narrative can lead to some pretty boring fiction.
Those same authors have written some soaring fiction on their own, but when constrained by the rules of the rpg, it was clunky and painful.
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Honestly, I've always been able to figure out Class and often rough level for Pathfinder Tales protagonists just from the abilities they demonstrate (and have done so correctly based on author commentary).
To me, that combined with the lack of needing exact rules text makes a good RPG related novel.
I've read novels based on ttrpg worlds where each sentence in an interaction between two people or two groups of people can be decoded for the exact rules from that rpg. You can tell from the description which dice rolls failed, and can often tell when the character rolled a crit.
Following the basic mechanics in their narrative can lead to some pretty boring fiction.
Those same authors have written some soaring fiction on their own, but when constrained by the rules of the rpg, it was clunky and painful.
If I'm looking for fiction from an RPG world this is specifically what I want. There's plenty of other options in the fantasy realm if I want something different. Using the RPG's name to sell the novel then completely divorcing it from the game is false advertising.
At the very least there needs to be a prominent disclaimer on the front cover indicating that they didn't bother using the rule set and only took fluff into consideration. Its still a waste of an opportunity though.
I feel like it's going to work via-
If the players absolutely need a ritual for some reason (e.g. an AP requires them to access a different plane and cannot assume the party has someone who can cast plane shift), it will give them the ritual.
If the players want to seek out a ritual which is uncommon, they can do so just like any other uncommon option.
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I've read novels based on ttrpg worlds where each sentence in an interaction between two people or two groups of people can be decoded for the exact rules from that rpg. You can tell from the description which dice rolls failed, and can often tell when the character rolled a crit.
Following the basic mechanics in their narrative can lead to some pretty boring fiction.
Those same authors have written some soaring fiction on their own, but when constrained by the rules of the rpg, it was clunky and painful.
If I'm looking for fiction from an RPG world this is specifically what I want. There's plenty of other options in the fantasy realm if I want something different. Using the RPG's name to sell the novel then completely divorcing it from the game is false advertising.
At the very least there needs to be a prominent disclaimer on the front cover indicating that they didn't bother using the rule set and only took fluff into consideration. Its still a waste of an opportunity though.
The world setting the game takes place in is not “fluff”, nor is it false advertising to base a story in that setting.
If I buy a fantasy novel it’s for story and setting, I don’t want a dissertation on the mechanics for a system that uses that setting. The system and mechanics are irrelevant.
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If I'm looking for fiction from an RPG world this is specifically what I want. There's plenty of other options in the fantasy realm if I want something different. Using the RPG's name to sell the novel then completely divorcing it from the game is false advertising.
At the very least there needs to be a prominent disclaimer on the front cover indicating that they didn't bother using the rule set and only took fluff into consideration. Its still a waste of an opportunity though.
To be clear, as far as I can tell (and I'm a pretty good rules analyst), the only part of the rules that the Pathfinder Tales novels don't reflect is the interpretation that HP represent physical damage. Which is debatable in the first place.
What they don't do, and I was trying to get at previously, is lampshade the rules they are following. The protagonists don't count down anyone's spells but their own (and don't make that count explicit to the reader...you have to go through and count yourself), combat and social interactions are described in normal narrative terms, and nobody's character sheet is shown or anything. But if you look for it or try and figure out how something works mechanically, you can do so successfully in a way that makes sense. People who care to do this are a bit of a niche market, but I've stopped and done it a few times (I'm weird) and found it very doable (there are a handful of rules mistakes occasionally, but only a handful...no more than you'd expect most GMs to make).
They certainly portray characters who have abilities that are difficult or impossible for PCs to get sometimes, but not any that a GM couldn't easily grant one way or another. They also certainly follow narrative logic rather than game logic inasmuch as these are not actual game sessions with rolls so the protagonists (and other characters) 'roll' whatever advances the story.
But in no cases have I ever run into anything in a Pathfinder Tales novel that simply didn't work by the mechanics of PF1 (again, except for one or two rules errors on par with those made by most GMs). The fact that I suspect I can do the same with PF2 regarding the same books is one of the main reasons I think they do a good job of reflecting the same universe.
I've read novels based on ttrpg worlds where each sentence in an interaction between two people or two groups of people can be decoded for the exact rules from that rpg. You can tell from the description which dice rolls failed, and can often tell when the character rolled a crit.
Following the basic mechanics in their narrative can lead to some pretty boring fiction.
Those same authors have written some soaring fiction on their own, but when constrained by the rules of the rpg, it was clunky and painful.
If I'm looking for fiction from an RPG world this is specifically what I want. There's plenty of other options in the fantasy realm if I want something different. Using the RPG's name to sell the novel then completely divorcing it from the game is false advertising.
At the very least there needs to be a prominent disclaimer on the front cover indicating that they didn't bother using the rule set and only took fluff into consideration. Its still a waste of an opportunity though.
The world setting the game takes place in is not “fluff”, nor is it false advertising to base a story in that setting.
If I buy a fantasy novel it’s for story and setting, I don’t want a dissertation on the mechanics for a system that uses that setting. The system and mechanics are irrelevant.
It is false advertising to use the name of a game system and then not use its rules to drive the narrative setup. If I see a game system on a novel cover, I would naturally assume that to be a major feature of the story.
If I don't care about system and mechanics, there are thousands of fantasy novels that don't need to follow a system because they aren't affiliated with a game. However, for ones that are, the system and mechanics are the primary consideration.
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However, for ones that are, the system and mechanics are the primary consideration.
That may be true for your enjoyment, but for me, it's the characters and character development that matter.
I read novels for the evocative narration. The novels help fill in the rudimentary flavor from the rules books. They are, for me, canon for motivation, goals, and emotional boundaries.
Rules text is there to fence in 'how' the characters respond. I'm not looking for an equivalence to the GM's narration of dice rolls. I'm looking for something more flavorful and imaginative.
Obviously, different people expect different things from the novels. What makes a passage boring and dry for me obviously excites you and adds to your enjoyment.
It's best when making sweeping statements about what the "primary consideration" is, to note that it's only your opinion, not something that is true for the entire audience.
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I've read novels based on ttrpg worlds where each sentence in an interaction between two people or two groups of people can be decoded for the exact rules from that rpg. You can tell from the description which dice rolls failed, and can often tell when the character rolled a crit.
Following the basic mechanics in their narrative can lead to some pretty boring fiction.
Those same authors have written some soaring fiction on their own, but when constrained by the rules of the rpg, it was clunky and painful.
If I'm looking for fiction from an RPG world this is specifically what I want. There's plenty of other options in the fantasy realm if I want something different. Using the RPG's name to sell the novel then completely divorcing it from the game is false advertising.
At the very least there needs to be a prominent disclaimer on the front cover indicating that they didn't bother using the rule set and only took fluff into consideration. Its still a waste of an opportunity though.
The world setting the game takes place in is not “fluff”, nor is it false advertising to base a story in that setting.
If I buy a fantasy novel it’s for story and setting, I don’t want a dissertation on the mechanics for a system that uses that setting. The system and mechanics are irrelevant.
It is false advertising to use the name of a game system and then not use its rules to drive the narrative setup. If I see a game system on a novel cover, I would naturally assume that to be a major feature of the story.
If I don't care about system and mechanics, there are thousands of fantasy novels that don't need to follow a system because they aren't affiliated with a game. However, for ones that are, the system and mechanics are the primary consideration.
Pathfinder is a brand as much as rules, and as much a setting as rules. Having a Pathfinder novel that focused on the setting is not false advertising.
“If I see a game system on a novel cover, I would naturally assume that to be a major feature of the story.”
How would this even be a thing?
It is certainly possible to write a novel so that characters are only doing things that would be mechanically possible in a game knowing that they are, say, an 8th level oracle.
I would never assume that the game logo on the novel was about doing that, instead of about the setting, though.
Easy, characters in the story get the same abilities at the same time a character in the game would have, with little to no rules alteration.Levels don’t exist in novels though, and Archetypes can trade out when and if you get abilities. And then there’s multiclassing and Prestige Classes.
They can exist in novels (c.f the LitRPG subgenre) and therefore you can plan abilities out with them. You can also reasonably have multiclass or prestige class levels described like this.
Pathfinder is a brand as much as rules, and as much a setting as rules. Having a Pathfinder novel that focused on the setting is not false...I've read novels based on ttrpg worlds where each sentence in an interaction between two people or two groups of people can be decoded for the exact rules from that rpg. You can tell from the description which dice rolls failed, and can often tell when the character rolled a crit.
Following the basic mechanics in their narrative can lead to some pretty boring fiction.
Those same authors have written some soaring fiction on their own, but when constrained by the rules of the rpg, it was clunky and painful.
If I'm looking for fiction from an RPG world this is specifically what I want. There's plenty of other options in the fantasy realm if I want something different. Using the RPG's name to sell the novel then completely divorcing it from the game is false advertising.
At the very least there needs to be a prominent disclaimer on the front cover indicating that they didn't bother using the rule set and only took fluff into consideration. Its still a waste of an opportunity though.
The world setting the game takes place in is not “fluff”, nor is it false advertising to base a story in that setting.
If I buy a fantasy novel it’s for story and setting, I don’t want a dissertation on the mechanics for a system that uses that setting. The system and mechanics are irrelevant.
It is false advertising to use the name of a game system and then not use its rules to drive the narrative setup. If I see a game system on a novel cover, I would naturally assume that to be a major feature of the story.
If I don't care about system and mechanics, there are thousands of fantasy novels that don't need to follow a system because they aren't affiliated with a game. However, for ones that are, the system and mechanics are the primary consideration.
Pathfinder is a game. Golarion is a setting. Golarion is not pathfinder.
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I really feel like the Pathfinder Tales novels cater to both perspectives here. They use the rules, but since they don't lampshade that use, you have to think about said rules to realize it.
There is a precise moment in, for example, Blood of the City a Pathfinder Tales novel, where the protagonist goes from a level 5 Urban Druid to a level 6 Urban Druid, gaining at-will Alter Self. Something she did not have previously and an ability people are surprised by in-universe.
But none of that terminology is used in the novel, nevertheless knowing that this is her Class (which is possible, since she's a statted NPC in the Magnimar book), the sequence of events is very clear.
Most of what she actually does with this ability can also be reflected in PF2, for the record, though an Archetype adding more Urban stuff would make it a lot better.
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They can exist in novels (c.f the LitRPG subgenre) and therefore you can plan abilities out with them. You can also reasonably have multiclass or prestige class levels described like this.Easy, characters in the story get the same abilities at the same time a character in the game would have, with little to no rules alteration.Levels don’t exist in novels though, and Archetypes can trade out when and if you get abilities. And then there’s multiclassing and Prestige Classes.
I didn’t know that was a thing but I’m not surprised. It’s also a niche genre rather than the standard. Like shows like Dot Hack and Sword Art Online it’s not to my taste.
There’s not a single Pathfinder Tales that reads like those.
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I didn’t know that was a thing but I’m not surprised. It’s also a niche genre rather than the standard. Like shows like Dot Hack and Sword Art Online it’s not to my taste.
There’s not a single Pathfinder Tales that reads like those.
A niche genre? Lol that's one of the main selling type of stories for Light Novels. The amount of stories with RPG elements is huge, with lots of followers, TV shows, Comics, Spin-offs and even movies.
Look up Shield Hero, Mushoku Tensei (24 volumes), I'm a Spider So What? (~550 chapters just in the web novel), and Konosuba (it's a parody of the genre), and Reincarnated as a Slime.In fact the amount of variety and number of novels with RPG elements is so large, some might even say it's starting to get stale. Actual RPGs might be more niche than those novels.
Niche in that it’s not the main, not that it isn’t popular or growing.
(That’s not even gettin into how many of those are Isekai of “die in the real world and wake up in an RPG”)
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Just to remind that uncommon isn't just "you need something to gain access to it", "gm needs to say yes", "you need to earn it as reward" or even "you need to do effort to find it".
It can also be "Its just isn't available at every settlement" like scholarly journals :P Scholarly journal is type of item you are likely to be able to find at any large city, library or academy, but its uncommon because you probably don't find "How to identify a vampire!" book at every hamlet, though you might be able to find scholarly journal about town(which you wouldn't be able to find in library of a metropolis) or region history in small town library instead.
That's goofy. Why would you write a novel if you don't know the basics of the class you're writing about? If a paladin has detect evil at level one, then that's what they get in the book. I detest authors (like Salvatore) who use a system to sell their work but don't even follow the most basic of mechanics in their narrative.
It's pretty reasonable to assume the reason a writer might shy away from an ability like "Detect Evil" as being a beginning level ability of a protagonist is for narrative reasons. If your protagonist can KNOW without a doubt that someone trying to influence them is nefarious (while not necessarily out to get them), it leaves less room for suspense/surprise.
In other words Almost ALL divination spells break dramatic tension unless used carefully and infrequently. It's why portent reading and seeing the future is usually fraught with failure or ambiguity in literature. This is fine for a game, but less so for the media of books.
I mean, a big part of why the protagonists of most of the Pathfinder novels are fighters, rogues, swashbucklers, an inquisitor who refuses to cast spells, etc. is to avoid magical things which break plots in a narratively unsatisfying manner.
I mean, the deuteragonist of one of the main series is literally a Wizard who can't cast spells, so his rogue buddy does most of the dirty work.