Wild Order Druid

[Crexis]

After looking into the wild druid I had some questions.

To change into an animal form to fight in battle, I have to reach level 3. For animal form it states "When you first cast this spell, choose an animal." Can my animal change day to day or do I need to stay as one?

Even if I have higher dex, will I still only have AC of "16 + Level" as it states under animal form? How does this compare with other martials AC's? Is it very low and problematic?

Any recommendations from the pros about how to build a wild order druid?

Thanks for any help!

[Deadmanwalking]

Every time you cast the spell, you may choose an animal.

The AC is exactly as listed, nothing but the listed things apply.

[Crexis]

What would you recommend stat wise for a wild druid?

I'm thinking Str then Wis then Con/Dex ?

Or do you want Str/Con/Dex then Wis?

[ChibiNyan]

The STR doesn't seem to do much, even if you have the highest possible STR, the transformations have a better attack/damage mod than you could achieve at the earliest opportunity. This is, of course, if you constantly pick the highest level available form.

Only benefit from high STR is being able to use the lower level forms to good effect for a longer time.

[Crexis]

Doesn't High Str, 16 for example, give you +3 attack rolls and +3 dmg on top of whatever your animal/beast/etc form you are? Also when you aren't shape shifted, wouldn't you want that STR melee bonus since you will most likely be fighting in melee vs the enemies (Shape shifted or not)?

For a wild druid, do you want that 18 wis? or can you get by with lower numbers.

Thanks for responding

[Xenocrat]

Crexis wrote:

Doesn't High Str, 16 for example, give you +3 attack rolls and +3 dmg on top of whatever your animal/beast/etc form you are?

No. You either use the attack bonus provided by the spell, or your own (+2 if you're Wild Order). You always use the damage provided by the spell, regardless of your strength or other enhancers.

[Allirog]

No, as per the Transmutation rules you only gain the benefits of circumstance and status bonuses and penalties while transformed. Your strength bonus becomes irrelevant to your melee attacks, your dex bonus becomes irrelevant to your AC. They still exist and affect any statistic which is not mentioned in the transmutation spell. For instance you still use dex for determine reflex saves.

Given that the primary benefits of STR is your attack hit chance, attack damage bonus, and athletics skill, all of which are altered by the spell, you will have almost no benefit from STR while transformed.

[Atalius]

Anybody have any build advice for this Wild Druid as the OP asked? He seems to be looking for a way to maximize damage and is trying to figure out if it's a viable choice instead of one of the other martial classes.

[pauljathome]

If you use your own attack modifier you get a +2 on it. That means that high STR is very worthwhile specifically for a Wild Order druid.

It also means a spellcasting or animal companion focussed druid can not bother with STR. If they wild shape via a spell they'll still be decent

[ChibiNyan]

pauljathome wrote:

If you use your own attack modifier you get a +2 on it. That means that high STR is very worthwhile specifically for a Wild Order druid.

It also means a spellcasting or animal companion focussed druid can not bother with STR. If they wild shape via a spell they'll still be decent

Need to see an example of where that +2 comes from.

[Deadmanwalking]

ChibiNyan wrote:

pauljathome wrote:

If you use your own attack modifier you get a +2 on it. That means that high STR is very worthwhile specifically for a Wild Order druid.

It also means a spellcasting or animal companion focussed druid can not bother with STR. If they wild shape via a spell they'll still be decent

Need to see an example of where that +2 comes from.

The Wild Shape spell specifies it.

[Xenocrat]

ChibiNyan wrote:

pauljathome wrote:

If you use your own attack modifier you get a +2 on it. That means that high STR is very worthwhile specifically for a Wild Order druid.

It also means a spellcasting or animal companion focussed druid can not bother with STR. If they wild shape via a spell they'll still be decent

Need to see an example of where that +2 comes from.

Wild Shape focus spell text.

[ChibiNyan]

Oh damn, I was just going off the Polymorph spells, this does change things somewhat.

[victusfate]

I was considering a fighter archetype druid to optimize the wild order +2 vs a pure druid.

Looking at Animal Form (the earliest form shift spell for combat):
A wild order druid at 3rd level they can use Wild Shape order (p401 CRB) spell heightened (2nd) to mimic animal forms. The default animal form modifiers are +9 to attack, +1 damage. A Wild Order druid could use their focus spell to shape shift and have an attack bonus of 10 -> break down trained bonus of 5(level + 2 for trained) + 3 (max strength mod) + 2 wild order spell option.

A fighter multiclass archetype druid could gain the same animal form by level 3 when the Wild Order focus spell allows animal form. Here their attack modifier max would be 13. The breakdown 7(level + 4 for expert) + 4 (max strength mod) + 2 wild order spell option. It's clearly advantageous for a wild order druid to be an archetype in this early case.

But it limits the maximum forms attainable (half level through Advanced Wilding and Druid Archetype). Consider higher level druid form feats: form control, thousand faces, insect shape, ferocious shape, soaring shape, capping out at plant shape by 20. Also druid spells will be limited to archetype advancement.

[Reziburno25]

Does wild shape max out on as 9th or 10th lvl focus spell, if latter then you could get soaring shape, non heighten version of monstronsity shape and perfect form control to say remain as phoenix for aslong as you want?

Or would you have to grab true shapeshifter feat aswell to make it become 10th.