What’s the minimum level you would say an NPC would have to be to successfully make several Major Artifact (Tech) items?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


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Because Batman regularly does so in DC comics, so that is the minimum level Batman would have to be in your games. That’s right, stealth Batman thread!

Okay, seriously though, what level would you say would be the minimum to make several Major Artifacts, whether they be Tech or just regular Magic Artifacts?

Note: This doesn’t apply to people with unusual circumstances, like the Runelords who existed when knowledge of magic item creation was vastly higher than the current setting’s level is. I’m talking about people from the current setting of Pathfinder.


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Major artifacts are plot and story tools, so the NPC would be the level the plot and story demand.


Minor Artifacts are items that were crafted and could be mass produced. Major Artifacts are one-off items. If an NPC 'created' a Major Artifact it is under such unique circumstances that they can't create another one.

Artifacts are a big deal. Even minor artifacts are beyond the scope of a Wish spell. Let that settle in for a bit, you can't wish a minor artifact (like a production lab, or a fusion power plant, or even a Staff of the Arch Magi) into existence. If you use a wish to get one (and it succeeds) the wish should move an existing artifact to you (or you to it), not create a new one.

Quite a few Minor Artifacts were items that could be produced by mortal hand once upon a time. The knowledge, process, materials, or just the skills to create them have been lost over time and with the fall of civilization. Some were created by divine beings, some were created on other worlds or dimensions, and a very small number of them are still being produced today (Sun Orchid Elixir comes to mind).

And lets face it, none of Batman's equipment is an artifact. If you wanted to create a batman like character use Leadership to acquire an alchemist cohort that gives you his spells every day and makes alchemical gear for you constantly. Then pack your 'utility belt' with cheap and very circumstantial magic items. And try to talk your GM into letting you create a golem based car.


Meirril wrote:

Minor Artifacts are items that were crafted and could be mass produced. Major Artifacts are one-off items. If an NPC 'created' a Major Artifact it is under such unique circumstances that they can't create another one.

Artifacts are a big deal. Even minor artifacts are beyond the scope of a Wish spell. Let that settle in for a bit, you can't wish a minor artifact (like a production lab, or a fusion power plant, or even a Staff of the Arch Magi) into existence. If you use a wish to get one (and it succeeds) the wish should move an existing artifact to you (or you to it), not create a new one.

Quite a few Minor Artifacts were items that could be produced by mortal hand once upon a time. The knowledge, process, materials, or just the skills to create them have been lost over time and with the fall of civilization. Some were created by divine beings, some were created on other worlds or dimensions, and a very small number of them are still being produced today (Sun Orchid Elixir comes to mind).

And lets face it, none of Batman's equipment is an artifact. If you wanted to create a batman like character use Leadership to acquire an alchemist cohort that gives you his spells every day and makes alchemical gear for you constantly. Then pack your 'utility belt' with cheap and very circumstantial magic items. And try to talk your GM into letting you create a golem based car.

Methinks you missed the fact that Batman’s computer is so advanced, that after leaving it completely alone for 20 years because he retired, it was still one of the most advanced computers in the world. (I’m talking about Batman Beyond.) And keep in mind that this is fiction. People genuinely thought we’d be as advanced as the Jetsons by the time the year 2000 rolled around. 20 years of fiction advancement is like 500 years of real world advancement.

Or how about all the numerous pieces of tech armor that can match up with people like Superman. He literally created a suit that can replicate the Speedforce powers of the Flash, and can recreate the powers of a Green Lantern Ring, you know, the most advanced piece of tech in the entire MULTIverse. And he does this with VASTLY inferior Earth tech. Imagine what he could do with superior alien tech.


Making major artifacts is something beyond normal circumstances by definition. There is no level at which this would be considered normal and you absolutely would need unusual circumstances to make them.


1.


+1 to Dave's 1.


blahpers wrote:
+1 to Dave's 1.

I may not have the rules for crafting really well known in my memories, but don’t you have to make a minimum DC for crafting, or else you’ll be incapable of making the item? Wouldn’t this prevent level 1 from being an option, since there are regular, non artifact items, that are too difficult for them to craft even on a natural 20, thus making artifacts beyond impossible?


Artifacts are made by some means other than crafting feats and spellcraft checks. That means might include being the greatest smith in the world or similar (which would be high level) but they might involve more fairytale-ish stuff (which a 9-year old girl with no class levels might do.)


Creating artifacts is impossible for any being with a stat block unless the story dictates otherwise. Their is no DC to be reached, only enough plot foo is needed.


Reksew_Trebla wrote:
blahpers wrote:
+1 to Dave's 1.
I may not have the rules for crafting really well known in my memories, but don’t you have to make a minimum DC for crafting, or else you’ll be incapable of making the item? Wouldn’t this prevent level 1 from being an option, since there are regular, non artifact items, that are too difficult for them to craft even on a natural 20, thus making artifacts beyond impossible?

Artifacts aren't necessarily (though some might be!) created using the standard crafting rules.

As far as magical artifacts go, even assuming that an artifact was created rather than simply becoming (e.g., legendary item mythic ability; that one alternate capstone ability; some kind of immaculate concoction), it might be created in a similar manner to the use of a crafting feat, or it might be more of a "stick a sword into a sleeping god and it takes on some of that god's power" sort of thing.

Your post is about technological artifacts, though, and I have no idea how those differ from magical ones as I don't own any of the relevant source material. Maybe the Technology Guide has more specifics, or Iron Gods?

Edit: Since this isn't Rules Questions, it's pretty much whatever makes sense for the game you wanna play. In one game it might just be a matter of spending much more time, energy, and resources that separates an artifact from a regular item; in another, maybe you need to infuse it with artifactium. In another, maybe you just have to have the Heterodyne spark to make that sort of tech work.


If they're some kind of Leonard of Quirm figure that should never actually see combat or a situation where they make a roll "on camera," then I wouldn't really care about it.

If they're going to be on stage participating in something relevant to the plot or even combat, then some minimum amount of survivability is appreciated because escort missions are beyond terribad.

And if they're an opponent, generally some form of satisfying combat encounter is desired.

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