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Wanted to reach out and see if anyone had some unique mounted combat characters, or optimized mounted combat characters out there. Thought about a halfling dog rider or perhaps a goblin rider or even just a human cavalier. They don’t seem to do a lot of damage at first glance, so I wanted to make sure I could contribute in combat.
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I was going to play a Kobold Chavalier, but my DM asked me not to play a Kobold in our AoA campaign.
And because we already have a goblin, I decided to go with a halfling.
I made some considerations before deciding to play a mounted character.
Here I quoted my considerations, and then answered how I managed to solved ( or for my point of view "fix" ) the Issues I met.
Mount Size and Progression
Quote: Adventure maps are mostly indoor, and would have been weird to take a companion, or to better say it "a horse", with the mount trait ( which is the only one common. The camel is from AoA, while either riding drake and monitor lizards are uncommon ) into a dungeon, a city settlement, a castle, and so on.
Also, large mounts have more issues than small ones when it comes to moving through small spaces.
Not to say that as a champion I wouldn't have been able to choose nothing but a horse, and in adjunct rely on the worst companion progression in this whole 2e edition ( lvl 10 to get the free action on the companion ).
I decided to go with a small character, in order to have a medium mount ( which just occupies a square as any other character ). This way you will be able to go wherever you want with no issues.
To deal with the companion I decided to go for the Beastmaster archetype for 3 reasons:
1) It grants you 1 companion of your choice ( you won't be tied to companions with the mount trait )
2) It offers the fastest and most efficient progression ever ( dedication by lvl 2 and mature companion by lvl 4, which gives a free action to your companion with no restrictions, like the ranger one for example ).
3) Heal Animal ( Focus spells which allows you to heal not only your companion but also other animals. We have a wild druid in party, so this works even better. Finally, it gives you an extra focus point ).
Movement related Feats
Quote: Being mounted means also to sacrifice a big part of class and ancestry feats movement related. Everything which says that you modify your movement or move in response to a specific trigger doesn't work ( and there are tons of feats which enhances your movement ). I simply decided not to take any of them, and instead rely on a really fast mount ( Dromaesaur, which has 50 feet speed ).
It also has a 10 feet step + attack as advanced maneuver, so if you plan to go for a specialized companion this will help you even more.
Mount MAP
Quote: Your companion Attack takes your MAP since you are riding it, so you won't be able to use it to attack ( unless you plan not to attack, for example being a spellcaster which relies on spells with a save ). But then this wouldn't be a chevalier at all. I decided not to go past the "mature companion", because I wouldn't have any valid benefit to improve my companion. Being able to rely on a companion which can stride 50 feet on its own is enough.
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As for the character ( I'll write down the essential the short version ):
Quote: STR 18
DEX 10
CON 12
WIS 12
INT 10
CHA 14
1- Halfling luck, Desperate Prayer
2- Beastmaster dedication, intimidating glare
3- Exp. Intimidation, Adopted ancestry ( Human ), Divine ally ( shield ).
4- Intimidating Prowess, Mature Beastmaster Companion
5- (STR, CON, WIS, CHA), Cultural Adaptability ( Gnome + Gnome Polyglot ), Exp Society.
6- Heal Animal, Multilingual
7- Multilingual, Master Intimidation
8- Quick Block, Multilingual
9- Multitalented ( Cleric )
10- (STR, CON, WIS, CHA), BattleCry. Devoted Focus
11- A home in every port, Exp. Diplomacy
12- Second Ally ( Blade ), Terrified Retreat
13- Incredible Luck, Master Diplomacy
14- Divine Reflexes, Shameless Request
15- (STR, CON, WIS, CHA), Scare to Death, Legendary Intimidation
16- Instrument of Zeal, Glad-Hand
17- Advanced General Training ( Canny Acumen Reflex ), Legendary Diplomacy
18- Rejuvenating Touch, Legendary Negotiation.
19- Legendary Society, Incredible Investiture.
20- (STR, DEX, INT, CHA), Shield Paragon, Legendary Linguist
I'll go with a shield and a lance, trying to make a good use of jousting. Movement will be left to the mount, and one of my 3 action will always be a shield raise ( to benefit from AC and quick block ). One action will be used to attack, while the other might be an intimidate, a second attack, a recall knowledge, a lay on hand, a heal animal or some item with the envision action.
I will protect allies ( as well as my mount ) with my champion reaction/s ( and also strike again ), and by lvl 16 I plan to have the "keen" rune, in order to trigger more instrument of zeal ( 10% chance on 3 attacks, which are a basic strike and 2 reactions ) which might become even higher due the the spear critical specialization, intimidation, flanking or anything else ).
During trivial encounter, I will be the diplomatic one ( starting by lvl 8 I will know all the existing languages but druidic, which I'd probably try to learn from my druid friend ).
I wonder what about donwtime activities, but I'd probably go with my basic lore to earn some income ( or take some bounty ). I might try to fit the "bargain hunter" feat, but I am not sure I'd like it on this character. I'll consider it.
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I forgot to mention that, unfortunately, in this 2e small and medium creatures are the same for what concerns bulk limits.
Which means that while a medium creature would be able to easily wear a full plate on its large mount ( as well as a shield, a weapon and a backpack), a small one won't be able to do so, while riding a medium size mount.
To make an example, I'll be taking the character I posted before and a human variant.
Halfling is 3 bulk
Human is 6 bulk
A full plate is 4 bulk for either human and halfling.
A one hand weapon is 1 bulk ( considering stuff which might be used on a mount, so no L bulk stuff).
A shield is 1 bulk
A bag of holding is 1 bulk.
Anything else is extra bulk ( like a rabged weapon, a backpack and so on).
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A medium mount will be able to carry 8 bulk ( 5 base + 4 str modifier, or 3 if it's a dex one) out of the 9 required ( without considering anything but armor, a shield and a weapon).
A large one can carry 2x8.
And every 1 bulk item counts as L instead ( and L items have negligible weight).
Results: unless a small character goes for a large mount, it won't be able to ride wearing a full plate without making it's mount encumbered.
Solution: deal with it and go for a high speed medium mount ( reducing its speed by 10 meters and making the mount clumsy).
Had a buddy run a Mounted Champion in a short PbP campaign over the summer. I don't recall his exact build, but it was pretty standard. Champ of Iomedae with a Lance, Weapon Surge, Mount Ally etc...
To summarize our experience with his character: He was Devastating on a charge turn, and pretty much normal any other time. Having the Large base size for his Champion Reaction was a really nice bonus, and the speed he could use to get around and attack opponents, or fall back to set up another charge was neat.
But he also had all the regular snags that such characters have always faced. Terrain becomes Much more problematic when you are large, and many of his bonuses were reliant on being mounted, like using his primary weapon, the Lance.
We only played that campaign for a handful of sessions, but the character struck me as good. We were just lucky that we didn't have a "standard" dungeon crawl, since that would have made him much less effective. Having to leave his mount outside would have denied him many of his in combat bonuses, and an entire class feature in the Mount Ally.
beowulf99 wrote: Had a buddy run a Mounted Champion in a short PbP campaign over the summer. I don't recall his exact build, but it was pretty standard. Champ of Iomedae with a Lance, Weapon Surge, Mount Ally etc...
To summarize our experience with his character: He was Devastating on a charge turn, and pretty much normal any other time. Having the Large base size for his Champion Reaction was a really nice bonus, and the speed he could use to get around and attack opponents, or fall back to set up another charge was neat.
But he also had all the regular snags that such characters have always faced. Terrain becomes Much more problematic when you are large, and many of his bonuses were reliant on being mounted, like using his primary weapon, the Lance.
We only played that campaign for a handful of sessions, but the character struck me as good. We were just lucky that we didn't have a "standard" dungeon crawl, since that would have made him much less effective. Having to leave his mount outside would have denied him many of his in combat bonuses, and an entire class feature in the Mount Ally.
I'd also take into account that more than the "chevalier" archetype it was the "weapon surge" focus spell what gave him efficiency.
A Lance deal 1d8 damage ( or 1d6 if used with the jousting trait while riding ). So it's basically equal to any other polearm or even one hand.
The jousting trait adds 1 extra damage per dice rolled on the first strike, if the mount moved at least 10 feet before it.
Quote: 1 bonus damage with a normal weapon
2 with a striking weapon
3 with a greater striking weapon
4 with a major striking weapon
So, a chevalier with a lvl 12 chevalier with a lance will do
Quote: 3d6/3d8 = weapon damage
+5 = STR
+2 = Weapon Specialization
+3 = Jousting
12/15 +5+2+3 = 22/25 average damage
A normal champion with longsword and shield will do the same damage if the chevalier uses the lance with 1 hand, or 3 less damage if the chevalier uses it with 2 hands ( but then no shield ).
Different is if the champion uses the weapon surge focus spell
3d6/3d8 becomes 4d6/4d8
And because so the damage increases, regardless the fact it moved from XX meters to benefit from the jousting trait, by 4 ( lance held with 1 hand ) or 5 ( lance held with 2 hands ).
It also incrases the Jousting damage by 1, so the difference would be from 5 to 6 damage depends your setup.
But since to benefit from the jousting trait you need your mount to move, also remembering that the jousting extra damage will be just used by the first attack, 80% of the total damage ( considering 2 attacks per round ) will be given by the Zeal focus spell "weapon Surge".
I remember it was in 1e, but I forget if quadrupeds have some bonus to carrying capacity in 2e -- a pony carrying more than a human of 'equal' strength, for example.
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One thing to watch out for when making a horse mounted character, lances often don't increase your reach:
Mounted Attacks wrote: On a Medium or smaller mount, use your normal reach. On a Large or Huge mount, you can attack any square adjacent to the mount if you have 5- or 10-foot reach, or any square within 10 feet of the mount (including diagonally) if you have 15-foot reach. Mature Animal Companions wrote: If your companion is Medium or smaller, it grows by one size. Animal Companion, Horse wrote: Size Medium or Large
Another thing to be wary of: the rules instruct GMs to generally not going after mounts and pets instead of PCs. However, there are many creatures that use quasi AoE attacks on everything in reach. Also, if your mount starts flying it suddenly becomes a really appealing target because taking it out knocks you out of the sky.
The other way to make mounted characters is horse archers using mobility and range to kite enemies.
Although while effective that doesn't work well in a RPG environment. Unless the entire party plays such characters the kiting aspect can't be used as someone needs or wants to go into melee. Also even if it works its kinda boring.
for me the biggest advantage you can get, especially for a class like champion who is action starved, is that mature AC gets 1 free stride or strike per turn even if not commanded.
that often translates to 1 free "stride" which means that you can have your mount carry you over to melee range, then raise your shield and do 2 strikes yourself, as opposed to only doing 1 strike in the same scenario. Or do things like lay on hands and still striking and raising your shield.
The second advantage is that there is always an ally in reach to use your Reaction.
shroudb wrote: for me the biggest advantage you can get, especially for a class like champion who is action starved, is that mature AC gets 1 free stride or strike per turn even if not commanded.
that often translates to 1 free "stride" which means that you can have your mount carry you over to melee range, then raise your shield and do 2 strikes yourself, as opposed to only doing 1 strike in the same scenario. Or do things like lay on hands and still striking and raising your shield.
The second advantage is that there is always an ally in reach to use your Reaction.
Champions actually have to wait a bit longer than Druids for that guaranteed action. You have to take the 10th Level Imposing destrier feat, while the Druid gets that ability at 4th with Mature Animal Companion.
The point remains though, Imposing Destrier helps the Champ a lot.
beowulf99 wrote: shroudb wrote: for me the biggest advantage you can get, especially for a class like champion who is action starved, is that mature AC gets 1 free stride or strike per turn even if not commanded.
that often translates to 1 free "stride" which means that you can have your mount carry you over to melee range, then raise your shield and do 2 strikes yourself, as opposed to only doing 1 strike in the same scenario. Or do things like lay on hands and still striking and raising your shield.
The second advantage is that there is always an ally in reach to use your Reaction.
Champions actually have to wait a bit longer than Druids for that guaranteed action. You have to take the 10th Level Imposing destrier feat, while the Druid gets that ability at 4th with Mature Animal Companion.
The point remains though, Imposing Destrier helps the Champ a lot. That's one of the reasons divine ally steed is not worth it.
1) You have to wait till lvl 10 ( a beastmaster gets it by lvl 4 )
2) your mount shares your map ( so improving it past the free action won't do anything, since you will be the one dealing damage. It would increase saves, ac and hp though, but it's unlikely that you'd find a DM who focus your mount instead of you ). Then it's better to invest a lvl 2 and a lvl 4 feat than a lvl 3 ( this one will also mean you have to invest into a lvl 8+ to unlock either a bigger shield or critical specialization ) + lvl 6 + lvl 10 feat.
3) by taking the steed you'd renounce to either the ally shield ( 50% more hp and +2 hardness means 2/3 more hit before the broken threshold ) or weapon ( critical specialization + rune ).
4) starting from lvl 8 you might go for a second ally, but it's also the same level you unlock quick block, so it's unlikely you'd go for a second ally if you play board and sword ( again, the bm archetype wins ).
5) by lvl 10 you'd take the free action on your divine steed, but it's also the level you take the divine ally improvmeent ( shield or sword ) or the refocusing ( 2 focus spells per fight is huge, especially given the fact the champion is the only one who has it by lvl 10 ).
Shield of reckoning, talking about a mount user, won't be useful given the fact you need an ally adiacent to you. The only way to exploit this is to have a small creature riding a small companion ( which becomes medium when mature ) without the mount trait. Again, only available with the beastmaster archetype ( or by taking the goblin ancestry feat, eventually ).
Radiant Blade Spirit increases your dps by a lot, and it gives you different possibilities.
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To make things a little more balanced, I think they should at least put the free action on the lvl 6 class feat, and eventually giving the champion a feat which allows the mount not to share its rider MAP ( you give your mount the possibility to also attack at a cost. Maybe a lvl 12 feat ).
you can always pick shield/blade ally and just grab cavalier and get the free action on 4.
shroudb wrote: you can always pick shield/blade ally and just grab cavalier and get the free action on 4. You might also take that one, indeed.
I simply mentioned the beastmaster archetype because it's the best we currently have, since it allows you to choose between a companion with or without a mount ( allowing you to let small characters to ride medium mounts, even if they don't have the mount trait ), and also to underline why divine steed is drastically underpowered compared not only to other companion progressions, but also to the other 2 divine allies.
I really hope they somehow realize this too and change the divine steed progression ( giving also some feat to prevent the mount from sharing your MAP ).
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