Armor Storm / Power Armor / unarmed how it works?

[SamAkaSam]

Hello everyone, i tried to search an answer but i couldn't find a clear one. So i opened this thread.

First of all: Hammer Fist say:
You treat any unarmed attack you make while wearing heavy or powered armor as being made with a battleglove (see page 187) with an item level equal to or lower than your soldier level, and you calculate damage for these attacks as if you had the melee striker gear boost (see page 112). If you have the melee striker gear boost, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with your unarmed attacks when using this ability. These unarmed attacks don’t benefit from other abilities that apply specifically to unarmed attacks (such as the Improved Unarmed Strike feat)

Then Powered Armor, under the Damage section, say:

Damage
When you make an unarmed melee attack with the powered
armor, it deals damage equal to the armor’s listed damage value
plus its Strength modifier.

Then there is the Soldier Gear Boost Unarmed Mauler that say:

Your unarmed strikes gain the wound critical hit effect and are treated as having an item level equal to your soldier level for the purpose of determining save DCs. You can take this gear boost twice. The second time you take it, your unarmed strikes instead gain the severe wound critical hit effect, and the DC to resist this effect increases by 1. If your unarmed strikes already have a critical hit effect, when you score a critical hit, you apply either the unarmed strike’s normal critical hit effect or the wound (or severe wound) critical hit effect granted by this gear boost

And then there are some feats that are coworking on unarmed strike. My questions are the following:

When i use an unarmed strike i have to choose between the Hammer Fist dmg and the powered armor or am i forced to use a specific one?

Than if i use Hammer Fist class feature all the bonus i would get from unarmed strike are lost? If it is i'll lose both power armor dmg and the gear boost unarmed mauler?

At lvl 13 the Storm Armor fightning style add:

Mobile Army (Ex) - 13th LevelYou become a master of all weapons associated with your armor. You deal 1d6 additional damage with any attack from a weapon that is part of your armor, including unarmed attacks using the hammer fist ability and weapons that have been attached to your armor as an armor upgrade. The additional damage is of the same type as the weapon’s normal type. Also, while wearing heavy or powered armor, you gain a +2 bonus to your KAC against combat maneuvers.

So the attack from Hammer Fist are still Unarmed Attack? If yes how it works with the previously boost/feature and other feats?

[HammerJack]

This has come up a few times before. There is not a line explicitly stating that you must use Hammer Fist, or that you may choose whether to use Hammer Fist, but I believe the general consensus (which I believe I have still seen occasional argument against, so talk to your GM to be sure about their reading) has been allowing the choice of whether to use the ability or not.

If you are using Hammer Fist, nothing that affects unarmed strikes is relevant unless it specifically works with Hammer Fist. No Natural Weapons, no Improved Unarmed Strike, no Unarmed Mauler, no damage die alteration based on PA model, etc. Your attack functions exactly as if you had the applicable model of battle glove, except as specifically noted otherwise, and powered armor does not change the damage of battle gloves, except as it modifies your strength modifier.

[HammerJack]

To clarify, since I think my phrasing was not ideal, when I say the general consensus I've seen is to allow the choice of whether to use hammer fist, it's been a lot of "I would give my players the choice" not a lot of "clearly, this is the rule."

[Claxon]

It looks like Hammer Fist isn't written as a choice, but since the ability is actually worse in many cases than using Power Armor or other Unarmed Strike options it seems punitive to force someone to use it. Check with your GM, but I think most people agree that in practice (regardless of the exact RAW) that you can choose not to use Hammer Fist.

As for how Hammer Fist interacts with other things, it doesn't. Unless the other thing is explicitly written to function with Hammer Fist. So often your best bet is to not use Hammer Fist and use all your other abilities with Power Armor damage replace ability.

[Brock Laserforge]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I go kind of the other way ... I find Hammer Fist so good that I can't figure out the benefit of.actually upgrading to power armor. It seems like, at level 6 with a 22 Str, it would actually downgrade my melee damage output.

It does seem like Hammer Fist works against a power armor build. If you focus on a Strength-based character to make the most of melee & Hammer Fist at early levels, then you have built a character that doesn't need to switch to power armor once they gain the proficiency.

[Pantshandshake]

Well, yeah. Powered armor by its very design isn't made for high strength melee builds.

If you're going for the best melee damage, hammer fist and PA aren't the way to go.

If you'd like a decent backup weapon with very consistent damage, hammer fist is great.

If you'd like to be a capable switch hitter, then PA is fantastic.

[Claxon]

Yeah, the trick is if you go power armor you're not maxing your strength. Then it would be a downgrade, since power armor substitutes your strength score.

I guess my main gripe is that the battle gloves are spread out more than power armor damage upgrades, so when I looked at certain levels previously it looked like a bad option.

Upon further review there are places where the battle glove is better and places where the power armor attack is better. But with not being able to apply other bonuses to Hammer Fist, that's what makes it generally worse.

[Pantshandshake]

Plus, at a certain point (for my soldier, level 6) you'll probably have a set of PA with at least 2 weapon slots, meaning your main and backup guns are always ready anyway.

With the addition of an Autoloader armor upgrade, you basically never need to worry about your hands or what's in them, so you might as well be using the highest damage 2h weapon you can buy or find anyway.

[Claxon]

Unless you're getting enough bonuses to unarmed strikes that it makes it better than a 2 handed weapon would be, or at least comparable enough that the money you save makes it worth it.

[Pantshandshake]

That's true, and given that soldiers aren't exactly feat starved, you could very likely come out with a build that works very well in ranged combat, as well as melee via an unarmed strike build.

I mean, I only prefer a weapon because of the cool factor, and fusions. Damage wise, they go back and forth in terms of probable higher damage output, but they're close enough that if you want to do both ranged and melee damage but can't afford enough toys, unarmed is totally viable.

Unless your GM doesn't subscribe to how a good portion of us assume the RoF and Improved Unarmed interact, or a couple other little details.

[SamAkaSam]

I wanna play a soldier who can fight both melee and ranged. Bump Dex for ranged use and use powered armor for melee.

Armor Storm looks like the best option to do this and it brings some interesting features at lvl 9 and 13 like a sort of bull rush specialization which provide a lot of mobility (combined with Mobility and Spring Attack) so all i need is a to understand how Hammer Fist works.

If i got it right your unarmed attack are not Unarmed anymore so those counts as 100% weapon attack

(Sorry if my english is bad but it isn't my mother language:( i did my best)