Venture-Captain, Australia—WA—
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As announced in today's blog.
Starfinder Society #2-00: Fate of the Scoured God (For Levels 1-10)
We're pleased to announce that the upcoming Starfinder Society interactive special (Starfinder Society #2–00: Fate of the Scoured God) is going to be a repeatable event! Unlike typical scenarios with the Repeatable tag, this event is repeatable once over its three Tier ranges (Tiers 1–4, Tier 5–8, and Tier 9–12) giving players multiple opportunities to experience this momentous adventure throughout the coming convention season. We're excited to provide players attending numerous conventions (such as Origins and Gen Con) a chance to run or play in this event multiple times, and for credit!
Venture-Agent, Netherlands
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This is fantastic!
I'm (and a bunch of Dutch people) are heading to Germany for a Con about 4 weeks before our own big Convention in September.
It's awesome to know that our guys can play at both events and still earn credit.
I'm assuming you need a different character at different tiers? Hopefully that will get an answer on the blog!
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This is fantastic!
I'm (and a bunch of Dutch people) are heading to Germany for a Con about 4 weeks before our own big Convention in September.
It's awesome to know that our guys can play at both events and still earn credit.
I'm assuming you need a different character at different tiers? Hopefully that will get an answer on the blog!
I don't think 2-00 debuts until Origins in mid-June. I'm going to Paizocon at the end of May and it isn't running there, sadly.
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I'm going to Paizocon at the end of May and it isn't running there, sadly.That... makes me incredibly sad =(
There are a ton of other cool games at Paizocon, though, including chances to play at author tables.
The special being repeatable does mean that here in the Twin Cities we could potentially run the Starfinder special for full credit at both Skalcon and Con of the North. Even then, we'd have a tier left to play it at a third Con out of town (or online, hi Hilary!)
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It'd be easiest to have 3 separate chronicle sheets and thereby treat it as three separate scenarios for purposes of replaying.
Otherwise there'll inevitably be questions about nova replays, seeker of knowledge replays, etc.
Maybe like:
02-00A Fate of the Scoured God [Tier 1-4]
02-00B Fate of the Scoured God [Tier 5-8]
02-00C Fate of the Scoured God [Tier 9-12]
Or something like that. And you know people will use other versions of replays on it, too.
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02-00A Fate of the Scoured God [Tier 1-4]
02-00B Fate of the Scoured God [Tier 5-8]
02-00C Fate of the Scoured God [Tier 9-12]Or something like that. And you know people will use other versions of replays on it, too.
A/B/C might be confusing in light of PFS #8-99, but yea it'd be nice to differentiate the three tiers as separate scenarios. It'd be nice to have it spelled it out that for purposes of assigning credit that the scenario should be treated as three separate adventures.
Nova replays, Seeker of Knowledge, and others have minor mechanical differences - eg there's playing vs GMing for credit a second time.
If treated as separate scenarios then, without extra verbage, GMs who run the #2-00 special more than once can get credit once per subtier as per the PC they apply credit to.
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Please don't use the "Repeatable" tag on this one. Maybe use "Replayable", or something else, but please use a different tag, so we don't dilute the "Repeatable" tag's meaning.
I suppose a truly "repeatable" adventure has no limits on replayability, whereas this one does, so perhaps some language on the Chronicle itself would be nice instead of a tag.
That way, if an inexperienced GM questions why you have two of the same Chronicles on different PCs, the answer can be found on the Chronicles themselves.
Starfinder Society Developer
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As someone who typically ends up GMing I certainly hope GMs can apply credit once for each tier, just as players can. Otherwise it'll be harder to get people to GM more than once; many would rather play it at a different tier.
I'll clarify it so you can GM once per Tier range as well.
We won't do separate Chronicle Sheets, and that's just for printer-related sanity for large events. :)
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Contributor
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For what it's worth, I think it would be better to only allow GMs to get credit once, but at the Tier of their choice, than to allow credit three times, but only at the Tier they GMed. People saying, "I'll GM this, but only at Tier 9-12," adds an extra layer of complication that Specials really, really don't need, especially when there will also be players saying, "Well, I can only play this at Tier 1-4."
Allowing GM credit three times, once per Tier, but not tied to the Tier they GMed would be ideal from my perspective, but please don't make the scheduling of a special even harder by only allowing GMs credit in the Tier they GM.
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I am tentativeyly scheduled to GM this three times this Summer so looking forward to seeing what the final outcome of the GM replays ends up being.
That said, I would GM it multiple times regardless of multiple GM credit. There are other ways to get replays if you really want them, and there is a need to GM specials anyway as you pursue your 5th nova.
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Allowing GM credit three times, once per Tier, but not tied to the Tier they GMed would be ideal from my perspective, but please don't make the scheduling of a special even harder by only allowing GMs credit in the Tier they GM.
Normally when you GM a scenario and choose which PC to apply credit to, you fill out the chronicle sheet as if you had played it at the subtier the GM's PC falls into.
Ie the last time I ran #1-99: The Scoured Stars Invasion it was in subtier 7-8 but I applied credit to a level 2 PC which had a Seeker of Knowledge boon, and I only received subtier 1-2 credit - not subtier 7-8 credit. It was as if instead of GMing I was playing that level 2 PC at a subtier 1-2 table.
Therefore it shouldn't matter which of #2-00: Fate of the Scoured God's 6 subtiers the GM ends up running; its the level of the PC they're applying credit to that matters. I would assume you'll be able to play the scenario once at each of the 3 subtier groups, and apply credit for GMing to PCs in each of the 3 subtier groups.
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Starfinder Society Developer
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Under review (wow, weekend) because I have some reservations about a particular boon that I don't necessarily want people to access by GMing a Tier 1-4 table of the interactive. This might be something that gets a unique call-out in the special. But I'll figure that out when I'm back in the office.
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Under review (wow, weekend) because I have some reservations about a particular boon that I don't necessarily want people to access by GMing a Tier 1-4 table of the interactive. This might be something that gets a unique call-out in the special. But I'll figure that out when I'm back in the office.
I recommend against gating a boon behind the tier that is run. That is bound to cause issues when GMs don't get to choose their tier. (For both Origins and GenCon, I was assigned a tier.)
As an alternative, you could place the boon behind another gate such as being a 2-Nova GM (for example). [I see this as similar to limiting a race boon until a specific faction reputation tier is reached.]
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Starfinder Society Developer
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The issue I'm having with this situation is more accomplishment related.
It's a delicate balance and something I'll keep looking into. Again, this is not something I want to turn into an "organizer burden" and if the existence of a cool unique boon for a given Subtier is going to do that, then I'm more tempted to just remove the boon to avoid the headache altogether.
Just to clarify, this isn't a "Take my ball and go home!" statement, but rather, a challenge I need to figure out. The boon created was intended to be something special for the highest tier players and not something everyone should be expected to have access to.
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Perhaps gate the boon so that it can only be applied to characters in the tier range that is appropriate for, and no others.
Also clarify that it is not avaialble for the Dataphiles capstone, if that is an appropriate restriction as well.
maybe something like:
Really Awesome Boon (Tiers 7-8, 9-10, and 11-12 only)
This is a really awesome boon that Thursty wants applied only to characters that receive credit for this scenario at tiers 7-8, 9-10, and 11-12.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Central Europe
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The issue I'm having with this situation is more accomplishment related.
** spoiler omitted **
Honestly, it might be better to remove that boon than producing all kinds of organizing/GM problems.
We need GMs at all subtiers (and most likely more for the lower tiers than the higher ones) and if people notice that they are getting "punished" for volunteering in the wrong subtier, this disincentives people.
edit: Glen Parnell's idea sounds like a good compromise if you want to keep that boon out of the hands of lower level characters.
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands
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The issue I'm having with this situation is more accomplishment related.
** spoiler omitted **
I'm going to have to back Glen with this one. I understand what you're trying to do, and I just think it won't work :(
I live in a relatively small country for Starfinder. Maximum of 20ish players. If I GM a special, even with help, most of my tables are low tier anyone, maybe 1 table at 5-6 or 7-8. This means there is no incentive for those GM's running low tier. I honestly think that is unfair.
I understand that you aren't keen on letting those GMing low tier get the boon, but sometimes we're not getting a choice in this. And if those playing low tier don't get rewards, why do people want to play it for example if they have a high tier character?
Also, if you've GM'd high-tier already, you'd have to GM low-tier, and players don't want to do that, there are so many problems.
TLDR: Either go with Glen or scrap it completely. I'm just not sure how it will work otherwise :(
Venture-Agent, Minnesota
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Thurston --
Why not let low tier GMs get it, but only be able to apply it once their own characters reach the appropriate level? That seems to be the easiest and most fair solution. For GM credit, gate the boon so that it only shows up when your character reaches ___ level or 3rd tier in one of their factions, or something like that.
Or you can go with Glen's solution!
We are still growing Starfinder. We need awesome GMs not just at the top tiers of a special, but also at the bottom to help newcomers have fun and become regulars. We need to encourage low level and high level play in order to keep growing our Starfinder base, and GMs are still a limited resource in this system.
Hmm
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Starfinder Society Developer
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Once I am back in the office and can confer with some co-workers, I'll see about getting some clarifications on this. While I understand that there's some excitement around having a repeatable special, I don't want to make a ton of snap changes to how we handle replay/GM replay without conferring with co-workers.
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Once I am back in the office and can confer with some co-workers, I'll see about getting some clarifications on this. While I understand that there's some excitement around having a repeatable special, I don't want to make a ton of snap changes to how we handle replay/GM replay without conferring with co-workers.
Please, let us take the time and do it the best way we can!
I was just trying to give a suggestion that might meet your stated design goals, not dictate anything. GMs and rewards can be a challenging topic, from "GMs should run because they enjoy it and get nothing" to GMs should get all the things".
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Starfinder Society Developer
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Oh no worries, Glen. Your suggestion does match the current verbiage I had (great minds) however, this thread has brought up some other considerations that I need to get all our ducks in order on. Especially in terms of opening the flood gates a little bit (in terms of actually having a replayable Special) to opening them wide and "see what happens".
I admit, the organization side of things isn't directly my purview; I just dabble from time to time. So I'll be conferring with people who have a better handle on all this before finalizing all my decisions!
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands
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Oh no worries, Glen. Your suggestion does match the current verbiage I had (great minds) however, this thread has brought up some other considerations that I need to get all our ducks in order on. Especially in terms of opening the flood gates a little bit (in terms of actually having a replayable Special) to opening them wide and "see what happens".
I admit, the organization side of things isn't directly my purview; I just dabble from time to time. So I'll be conferring with people who have a better handle on all this before finalizing all my decisions!
Honestly, the fact you're so open about what you're doing and allow us input, even if it does sometimes feel like we carry on a bit, is actually awesome.
It is kinda great to see someone that cares for the community and doesn't sit in the dictator chair and make decisions (this is not aimed at any other community in general, just a comparison of what it could be)
I'm excited to see what you come up with!
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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Oh no worries, Glen. Your suggestion does match the current verbiage I had (great minds) however, this thread has brought up some other considerations that I need to get all our ducks in order on. Especially in terms of opening the flood gates a little bit (in terms of actually having a replayable Special) to opening them wide and "see what happens".
I admit, the organization side of things isn't directly my purview; I just dabble from time to time. So I'll be conferring with people who have a better handle on all this before finalizing all my decisions!
If you are getting a direct, relatively rough response to something from some of us who organize, that is because when it comes to conventions to many things can already go wrong, and running multi-tables is already one of the things that take up a lot of time.
A replayable special is a neat idea, but from an organizer's perspective that also poses some challenges.
I expect them and players like them, to play in 1-2 or 3-4, which also means that should we want to offer it again, those players would likely have to stop playing their first character and get that second character to level 5 in order to be able to replay the special in another level range.
Personally, since they are likely to want to try PF2 as well, I don't see that happening.
So I already consider that we would need to offer an at least one alternative table for those players, and it is usually anything but easy to find a GM for those, since that means that the GM is neither playing or GMing the special.
When it comes to organizing stuff I usually try to focus on what can go wrong, and how that would affect our players and GMs.
I am fortunate that I have a number of quite flexible GMs that, are willing to spend the night prepping a scenario for the next day, or that are willing to switch subtiers with little to no notice.
Any chance to the incentives and rewards for them makes it harder for them to stay flexible without suffering negative consequences.
For example, if I cancel someone's SFS table so he can replace one of my PFS GMs, that can have a significant effect on what GM boon I can give him for his service.
Of course, every region is a bit different, what might be a minor disturbance for some regions, might risk the entire event in others.
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Contributor
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Seriously, thank you for giving this due consideration! I appreciate that you're listening to the concerns that many of us have.
I don't think removing the boon in question sounds like "taking your toys and going home," but simply avoiding a problem that a lot of us are anticipating. Maybe that boon could end up getting reused later on a high tier scenario, where it can only go on high tier characters.
And definitely, taking your time on this is fine. I don't think any of us need an answer quickly, just to feel heard, which you've done!
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I agree with the holding of access idea.
Another thought, what if the boon was not available if you GM it, only if you play it? It is a bit more restrictive, but it would allow the boon to still exist and would remove the concern for some GMs having access while others don't. The downside is, of course, that people will be miffed that GMs don't get access to the boon and are therefore "being punished" for GMing.
Also, I don't specifically remember this point being brought up but, how many times would a player have access to this boon? Could you potentially limit the number of times that a player can receive the boon via playing or GMing? This limiting coupled with the holding of access, though slightly more complicated, could address the replayability issue as it relates to the boon. It also still allows access via playing or GMing.
i.e. You, as a player, can only ever receive this boon once, whether you GM or receive it through playing.
I personally would love to see this mechanic in organized play. It would be restrictive enough that the boon would feel unique, but not too restrictive wherein only a select few would have access. AND it would set up a precedent that would allow for more cool boons to exist without the concern for a bunch of scenario munchkin'ed characters.
OOH! It could be a type of boon "unique". Wherein unique boons can only be earned once. Also it is a new slot for a boon therefore you could only have 1 slotted at a time. This could also help with combating scenario munchkin'ed characters. Or the boon itself could have a normal slot classification, but have the unique type wherein only 1 can be slotted at a time regardless of slot.
This is getting a bit ramble-y. I will say though, I really like the idea of only ever being able to receive the boon once.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I agree with the holding of access idea.
Another thought, what if the boon was not available if you GM it, only if you play it? It is a bit more restrictive, but it would allow the boon to still exist and would remove the concern for some GMs having access while others don't. The downside is, of course, that people will be miffed that GMs don't get access to the boon and are therefore "being punished" for GMing.
You could pair that with a boon that you can only get through GMing 2-00, not by playing, thus matching the cycle.