#10-18 The Daughter's Due GM Thread


GM Discussion

Silver Crusade 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Oh no! Hats! You shouldn't have! D:

Shadow Lodge 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

I'm actually a bit unclear about the script there. Does he wander through the halls to catch up, or does he just kool-aid his way through the wall there? (I'd prefer the later, even if it's not that justified)

I'm rather unhappy with the 4-player adjustment for Valryss. It should be that the price tag goes down as there's less players to divide the cost among.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Society Developer

James Anderson wrote:
I'm rather unhappy with the 4-player adjustment for Valryss. It should be that the price tag goes down as there's less players to divide the cost among.

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT, not like you can divide a soul.... ;)

Shadow Lodge 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

I meant the gold cost if they don't pony up a soul and fail the skill checks. Or lowering the DC's or something. Unless the expectation is that the players will fight?

There was some confusion when I ran this last night on if you needed 4 different skills used or if you could repeat them.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Society Developer

James Anderson wrote:
I meant the gold cost if they don't pony up a soul and fail the skill checks. Or lowering the DC's or something. Unless the expectation is that the players will fight?

PCs will do what PCs want to do. But one of them could totally be a hero and offer up their immortal soul to avoid the cost entirely! :D

The Concordance 1/5

James Anderson wrote:
or does he just kool-aid his way through the wall there? (I'd prefer the later, even if it's not that justified)

Justified or not, he has MAGIC HATS that do "weird magic stuff" in the place... Need any more justification?

2/5

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

If everyone who marries a Blakros daughter takes their name, why didn't Nigel change last names? (Do I need to read back through older scenarios?) Or was Dhrami not an official daughter in that sense?

2/5

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Oh never mind, he never married in.

1/5

This scenario feels a bit 'thick' and 'dense' at the same time.

As a GM, what options are there to streamline this in case it starts to feel like it's running long -- ie, what can be chopped down?

I really *don't* want to do this, but I'd like to have a good fallback in case my first two reads 'gut' suspicion is correct?

2/5

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

One clarification regarding the reporting questions:
For the C/D it feels like your not asking what I think the players are likely to say want.

1) Players want to actively abandon the Blakros's: -->D
2) Players want to assist the Onyx --> C
3) Players want to assist Blackros -->C
4) Players want to avoid taking a side -->D
5) Players want to broker an agreement -->C

Is this a correct mapping of player intent to reporting condition?

Liberty's Edge 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West

1 person marked this as a favorite.
GM Wageslave wrote:
As a GM, what options are there to streamline this in case it starts to feel like it's running long -- ie, what can be chopped down?

We kept it under 4 hours with a 10-minute break, but not by much.

Investigation

I made sure to keep the investigation moving at a brisk pace. There are some roleplay opportunities to put in here, but Hats and Elgar really steal the show later on and will likely be far more memorable than whatever improv the GM does during the investigation.

Each investigation has a similar pattern that can be used to your advantage; smart players will pick up on it quickly, or you can help your players understand it:

1. Knowledge/perception check to get lead from scene of crime
2. Social check to canvass the staff
3. Knowledge/perception check to obtain evidence for dispute

Dreng's Sting

My players failed to avoid combat in Dreng's Sting. However, I called that combat early because hit-and-run tactics paired with combat expertise AC make it a slog. My table was not in any real danger, so I called it for the sake of time when one fighter was left.

Warehouse

Remember that once Sarnia is "antagonized or overly bored" she starts combat. I would avoid letting the PCs linger on a scene with her. Make sure you're ready to run the taxidermic dinosaurs efficiently (including the 20% miss chance if you're running the 4-player adjustment).

Do the extra rooms in the warehouse in theater of the mind. I didn't even draw C2 or C3. Not having people moving minis around on a map saves precious minutes that add up.

Silver Crusade 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

NielsenE wrote:
Oh never mind, he never married in.

He married Dhrami, but there's marital tension.

From the scenario... (scenario name spoilered):
Blakros Matrimony

Quote:
A Forlorn elf raised among humans, Nigel abandoned his original elven name and adopted a more Taldan moniker to fit in with the high society he hoped to join. When he married into the Blakros family, he refused to change his name again, however, and he and his wife have no children, as she believes he would also refuse to raise them as Blakroses. This marital conflict has caused a rift between Aldain and much of the Blakros family, and he fears for his tenure as museum curator.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Note that the stat block for the last fight shows high-tier Chalos with a scroll of greater invisibility, while the tactics (and the chronicle) indicate a wand of it with 2 charges remaining.

1/5

Ran this at PaizoCon. Observations below.

As some have stated above, do NOT let yourself get bogged down to avoid the treat that is roleplaying the Master of Coiffure. It's arguably the most fun part of the scenario, and missing out on that would be a bit of a loss.

Concerns on the play-through that came up and I took notes on:

Do not drag through the fact-checking at the museum, entertain ideas if folks have alternatives (lacking any of the skills necessary) and keep it kind of 'snappy'.

During Dreng's meeting on the streets, mind the 'murder closet' that the map is, and what logical route the emissaries are going to have to take to meet Dreng. Even with an eidolon who invisibly eavesdropped on Dreng and the meeting place, I was able to keep the tension high without it ever devolving into combat.

In dealing with the hags we had the fortune of someone at the table who had played #5-09 AND had the boon indicated in the text. The lucky person decided to be 'on point' for the negotiations, and hit the points indicated by the scenario as being good ideas to mention without any prompting from the GM.

Because it was a custom map and I did not have time to draw it out well (and the original printed copy didn't make the trip to Seattle) it took a few of the players who played in the 'old' Blakros to make the connection and then go a bit pale and look to the table "Guys! I think I know where we are!"

The last fight can be a bit of a spatial hassle if the party has managed to recover the golem and Hats has joined the party. We were able to make it work, but be advised that things can get *rather tight* in that last room.

Hope everyone else has an awesome run of this, it was a LOT of fun!

Grand Lodge 3/5

GM Wageslave wrote:


Ran this at PaizoCon. Observations below.
The last fight can be a bit of a spatial hassle if the party has managed to recover the golem and Hats has joined the party. We were able to make it work, but be advised that things can get *rather tight* in that last room.

Hope everyone else has an awesome run of this, it was a LOT of fun.

And you didn't even have the sentient wax golem participate in battle, much like the hunter with his giant scorpion.

At least Hats got to smash a golem before being 'ported to who knows where.
My Pack Rager Barbarian and Escape Route made maneuvering in that fight more manageable.

Thanks for running, it was a fun scenario.

2/5

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Still wish there was a reporting condition to capture all of my tables' desire to _ally_ with the onyx alliance against the Blackros's. That still gets reported as "stay involved in the feud" but I fear as written that assumes the PCs want to help the Blackros's instead.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
NielsenE wrote:
Still wish there was a reporting condition to capture all of my tables' desire to _ally_ with the onyx alliance against the Blackros's. That still gets reported as "stay involved in the feud" but I fear as written that assumes the PCs want to help the Blackros's instead.

Agreed. Sarnia did a good job convincing my players who the villains of the Blackros stories were (the Blackroses)

They were ready to swear loyalty before even entering the Wightir House.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Thurston Hillman wrote:
James Anderson wrote:
I meant the gold cost if they don't pony up a soul and fail the skill checks. Or lowering the DC's or something. Unless the expectation is that the players will fight?
PCs will do what PCs want to do. But one of them could totally be a hero and offer up their immortal soul to avoid the cost entirely! :D

Thurston,

Kudos on a well-written scenario. I've been out of the loop for most of PFS since the beginning of Season 3 and this is probably my favorite scenario that I've read.

1/5

Have to second the commentary about 'join up with the Onxy Alliance'.

When presented with 'stay involved/stay out' as the only options, the party went with 'stay out' and I reported as such.

HOWEVER, if there had been a third option available in plain text 'join up with the Onyx Alliance, SCREW THEM BLAKROS!' I'm strongly of the mind that my table would have voted for that.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Missouri—St. Louis aka Joshua N Hancock

A 2 charge wand of greater invisibility for 450g? But greater invisibility is level 4, so it should cost 840g.

4/5 Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht aka Quentin Coldwater

Ran this last night, some observations:

The inventory identification went okay-ish. They missed some stuff, but overall got most of them right. They wanted to interview Nigel and I didn't see a reason why not. Nigel had to admit there was no real proof for indicating all of the missing items were the fault of the Pathfinders, so that may have soured them against him a bit.

Dreng's sting went okay. The way I read it, there wasn't really a chance of them sneaking up on the intermediaries, because why would the party start sneaking all of a sudden? So they blundered into the transaction, and the intermediaries were pretty fidgety. Luckily, the party consisted of mostly completely unarmed people (a Brawler, pregen Mesmerist, Monk/Paladin, and Arcane Trickster that attacked mostly with rays), so they didn't seem immediately threatening. Maybe I was too lenient on them, but they managed to bluff their way out of the situation, so it's fine.

The Soul Stalls were a bit iffy. Valryss confessed what her plan was with the golem, and they had her sign a confession that it wasn't the Pathfinders' fault it got missing. While the mission was to retrieve the objects, I counted this at least as definitive proof, and let it slide. I kinda forgot about the part where she wanted to sell it on, so that's on me. The party argued that the golem had come to life and deserved his own life, rather than being a guard for the Blackros forever.

Wightir House went as planned. I personally have some issues with Sarnia's whole "well, I have to throw minions at you otherwise it won't seem like you've earned it," thing. On the one hand, it's a cheeky acknowledgement of the situation, but on the other hand, why throw minions at the party when you know you'll lose anyway?

The choice whether to stay involved with the Blakros and the Alliance was maybe interpreted a bit wrong by my party. I think they construed it as "do you want to keep involved with the Blakros, period?" but the party was so put off by the whole Blakros incompetence that they decided to keep out altogether. Even a totally new guy (first PFS scenario), who had never heard of the whole Blakros history, agreed to stay the hell away from them.

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

Kwinten ran this for me last night. I'm left with somewhat mixed feelings. Kwinten didn't use the Letter from the Ten because he felt it was too spoilery, but I think in hindsight that wasn't a good idea. It made the whole adventure feel like we'd just been randomly summoned to the museum to suddenly take the blame for items disappearing. It made Nigel look vengeful and petty, blaming us after all the times he desperately requested our help.

4/5 Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht aka Quentin Coldwater

Fair point. I personally thought the letter pulled in different directions at once. It namedrops the Shadow Plane right from the start, setting up the fact you're going to there later on. But to the mission at hand, it's completely irrelevant. The whole handout feels like "top secret information, why am I even telling you this, blah blah blah, oh, here's your actual mission." I thought mentioning Dreng was in the Shadow Plane made sense once it's clear you're actually going there. The stolen items one by one point towards the bigger plot, rather than putting it upfront and you just verifying that yes, there is indeed a bigger plot going on.

I did try to make it clear you're not simply there to take the blame, but to double-check these accusations. Apparently I failed in that approach. My apologies.

4/5 Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht aka Quentin Coldwater

GMed this again. Some things I've noticed:
- People seem stumped by Antos Raul (the innkeeper). My first party dismissed him quickly and tried interviewing other people at the inn, my second party really didn't know what to do with him until I hinted at showing a Wayfinder.
- The sting with Dreng and the Fetchlings seems weird. The first party blundered into them and bluffed their way around. I hinted more at the covert nature of Dreng's mission to the second group and they went more carefully, avoiding the fight as well. I put down the map, placed the minis, showed the transaction between Dreng and the Fetchlings (the PCs took their time advancing, so the encounter was already underway), and cleaned up the map again. Maybe I ran it wrong, but with Dreng flashing signs, it seems hard to elicit a fight from them. The whole thing felt a little underwhelming. But I admit I might've run it wrong.
- Hats is a treasure. but, being from a five-star special means not everyone might be familiar with him. I haven't played it, so he's a little bit of a mystery to me. A small summary of his role in the previous scenario might be useful.
- Why does Hamaria give the party a Sustaining Spoon/Cauldron of Plenty AND a Scroll of Heroes' Feast? Especially when the mission doesn't require multiple days (though she doesn't know that). It feels a little like treasure padding. The scroll would've sufficed, along with maybe a monetary reward (or just the spoon/cauldron).

Community / Forums / Organized Play / GM Discussion / #10-18 The Daughter's Due GM Thread All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.