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How do you contact Paizo Executives?

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Numerous Paizo customers have been trying for months to get answers to a number of questions about Ninja Divisions failed Starfinder Masterclass Miniatures Kickstarter. We have been told by customer service that they cannot answer questions because executives will not give them answers. How can I get Paizos officers a d executives to respond to questions by customers or to give answers to their own customer services employees? We've been promised a statement from the Publisher for over two months now and nothing has been produced.

There's a "Contact Us" link at the bottom of every page. It listst their street address so you can send letters.

There's also a phone number that you can call. And a fax number to send a fax

And there are a bunch of email links so you can send emails.

Just click the "Contact Us" link on the bottom of every web page.

The problem is that the main one I want a response from is the CCO/Publisher and that customer service has told us a couple of times that the Publisher is going to make a statement going back to February. I can't find an email for him on the contact us page and he hasn't replied to a private message. Is there another e-mail list that includes the Publisher? I figure he is the best to contact because he supposedly had a statement ready before the GAMA trade show.

You can't force someone to respond to you.

All you can do is send your information and questions to the appropriate parties.

In this case, that's the Paizo Customer Service email. Once you've done that, you've reached the limit of what you control.

Trying to control things you can't control is frustrating and anxiety provoking. Getting emotionally involved in trying to control things you don't control makes your life worse, not better.

You can't control other people. You can only make sure your own behavior is appropriate.

I believe that Paizo staff have given the information to all the appropriate Paizo executives.

I also believe that they have things on their to-do list that are much higher priority than dealing with the failures of some other company to fulfill a Kickstarter event, even if the other company is a licensee.

So, there's really not much we can do to force them to change their priorities.

I appreciate your prospective, it just hurts to continue to get silence when there have been repeated assurances that Paizo's officers and Executives care over the span of months and they still can't be bothered. It's especially distressing when customer service posted over two months ago that a statement would be forthcoming.

I just hate when a company repeatedly tells you that they care but can't make you a priority. I guess that every act and activity they have undertaken for the last few months have been more important than addressing this Kickstarter.

I agree, being repeatedly disappointed hurts. The Kickstarter failure in particular has been a drawn-out affair.

I disagree that the Paizo (lack of) response has been because "they can't be bothered."

The launch of a game that may make or break this company (PF2) is intense, both emotionally and from a work-output standpoint. I can see why every bit of staff and executive attention has to be put into assuring its success.

If PF2 doesn't go well, there's going to be a lot more fallout than just disappointed fans. Staff will be laid off, and the company will need to, at very least, downsize drastically.

So I can understand that coping with the failures of some other company to meet expectations is not high on their priority list. The failure of Paizo would be far more disastrous.
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Be patient, polite, and don't take the silence personally, that's about all you can do.
CrystalSeas wrote:

I agree, being repeatedly disappointed hurts. The Kickstarter failure in particular has been a drawn-out affair.

I disagree that the Paizo (lack of) response has been because "they can't be bothered."

The launch of a game that may make or break this company (PF2) is intense, both emotionally and from a work-output standpoint. I can see why every bit of staff and executive attention has to be put into assuring its success.

If PF2 doesn't go well, there's going to be a lot more fallout than just disappointed fans. Staff will be laid off, and the company will need to, at very least, downsize drastically.

So I can understand that coping with the failures of some other company to meet expectations is not high on their priority list. The failure of Paizo would be far more disastrous.

I could agree with you if the time frame was days and maybe even weeks, but they are on to months.

I see your sentiment about the importance of 2e to this company and I agree with you to the extent that the success of 2e is going to be very important to Paizo's continued viability but I disagree with your conclusion. In my mind, the fact that 2e is coming is a reason to get this situation behind them by taking some kind of action one way or another. I think their silence in the form of any statement and their failure to give customer service the information that they need has caused this situation to fester and get worse. I agree that they probably don't want to deal with this and may see it as a distraction from their main work with 2e, but it is the distractions, when ignored, that may ultimately be what hurts a company.

Thank you for your input and I've appreciated it even though we disagree in some ways.
Silas Stadatilas wrote:
even though we disagree in some ways.

Since neither one of us invested any money in that Kickstarter, I doubt that our agreement or lack of agreement is going to make any difference in the final outcome.

I'm careful with what companies I deal with. What they do to someone else they will do to me.

For example is it improper for a cis female to boycott chick fil a for their donations to anti LGBTQ groups if she is not a member of one of those groups? Why would you need to be personally injured to seek to redress a received wrong?

I hate the idea that folks are out almost half a million dollars, it looks like but can't confirm that forty thousand of that went to Paizo. The wrong doesn't need to be done to you to want that wrong to be redressed.

Plus, the removal of a post I made related to potential liability of Ninja Division pursuant to Federal Trade Commission regulations and how to make a complaint is very wrong in my opinion and I would like to discuss it. Hence my initial question for this thread.

Frankly, I hope we are both part of a solution.
Silas Stadatilas wrote:
The problem is that the main one I want a response from is the CCO/Publisher and that customer service has told us a couple of times that the Publisher is going to make a statement going back to February. I can't find an email for him on the contact us page and he hasn't replied to a private message. Is there another e-mail list that includes the Publisher? I figure he is the best to contact because he supposedly had a statement ready before the GAMA trade show.
Private message seems the best to me. I’m sure you could also email community@paizo.com and ask them to forward something to Erik.

You can’t guarantee a reply, but in terms of contacting him, those ways are going to work.

Fwiw, I don’t think the problem is that he hasn’t heard the requests or doesn’t understand the issues - so contacting him isn’t really going to help, in my view. It seems to me that it’s a matter of priorities. This project feels like a big deal to me, but it’s probably not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I’ve heard Erik described as the busiest person at Paizo. I don’t really understand what a publisher actually does day to day but the decisions on priorities within that is obviously up to him.

I’m sure the perspective from his side in terms of “what can/should be discussed publicly” is also quite different from ours.
Grand Lodge

Unless I misunderstand (I did not back the Kickstarter for reasons obvious if you did research into Ninja Division's history so I have not kept up to date with this project) this is exclusively an issue directly with Ninja Division. Paizo is only involved in so far as they "sold" a license to ND to produce miniatures. If that is the case, then why would you think that Paizo is going to field complaints regarding the productivity (or lack thereof) of an outside company? They may know details that the public is unaware regarding this issue, but I doubt they are empowered or inclined to get involved in a way that could make them appear as a spokesperson for ND. If you want answers about a ND Kickstarter, you'll have to go to ND with the questions.
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I think there’s some context you’re missing (understandably, if you weren’t a backer).

Paizo have been hosting a thread about it and providing information from time to time. They recently locked the thread (as forum members began sniping at one another and moderation resources are stretched at the moment).

The reason I expect engagement on the issue is because they've been doing it. I suspect the threadlock is temporary due to paizocon manicness and fully expect it to be reopened soon enough.

As you did not back the Kickstarter due to what you saw with ninja division/soda pop miniatures poor track record, when that was brought up in the forums the Paizo CCO/Publisher and COO both gave endorsements that Ninja could deliver. See the first couple of pages of the closed ninja division thread. So folks have stated that they only pledged because of those endorsements. As it would appear, based on a ninja division update that they were paying a percentage royalty, the more pledges the more money Paolo makes.

Plus that give some issues for Negligent Referral. I'm not going to get into that in any detail here.

I think three months ago now we were told in the thread that the CCO/Publisher was going to make a statement. I want to read that statement.

Finally, in closing the thread for aggressive behavior by others, they choose to delete a post I did detailing a Federal Trade Commission Regulation I believe Ninja Division is in violation of. The post included how to make a complaint. I would hope Paizo is more angry with ninja division than I am and I would hope that they take the stance that their partners should follow us federal regulations. I want to know why that post was deleted. The thread closing message was about fighting between posters. My post was in direct response to a question about what else could be done. I took that action as Paizo protecting ninja division at the expense of the backers and helping ninja division avoid liability under federal regulations. If you want I can recreate that thread here and include the CFR cite. It is the mail, internet, telephone order rule if you want to search yourself.

As each of those questions goes to Paizo's actions, I am asking Paizo. I also have one additional question, I'm not adding it here but it is easy to guess if you read the closed thread.

Edit fixed name of rule.
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This, this isn't going to force them into a statement.

In fact, it will probably have the opposite effect.
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Silas Stadatilas wrote:
I want to know why that post was deleted.
For what it’s worth, Paizo’s preferred process for discussing/challenging deletions of posts is to email community@paizo.com.

They often lock threads bringing up previously deleted posts (as 9 times out of 10 revisiting the post results in the same issues coming up again).
Steve Geddes wrote:
Silas Stadatilas wrote:
I want to know why that post was deleted.
For what it’s worth, Paizo’s preferred process for discussing/challenging deletions of posts is to email community@paizo.com.

They often lock threads bringing up previously deleted posts (as 9 times out of 10 doing so results in the same issues coming up again).

I've tried contacting Sara Marie directly but to no avail, hence this thread as it is the actions of the Customer service manager that I'm taking issue with, I would like to go up th he chain. This is not a standard challenge. Frankly I am very disappointed with the Customer service manager.

Everything I'm questioning is in multiple posts that haven't been deleted, the only one that I'm questioning removal of was not in any way related to the reason given for the closing. Frankly that post, violation of FTC rules by Ninja Division, was more of a PSA than something that would spark debate or derision. It should not have been deleted. Plus that post is only Ninja Divisions liability, not Paizo.

Notice too, I've only gone into detail as it has been suggested that I don't have a reason to contact Paizo.

Frankly, I am no where near as optimistic as you are that the thread will be reopened and, as the saying goes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

I just figured you’d like to know. It’s quite likely this thread will be locked too (whereas you’ll get an answer via community@paizo.com - albeit likely not until next week. The thread was locked late on Friday afternoon).

I’d expect that if you want to “go up the chain” then following their preferred process for complaints is a far better avenue than a messageboard post.
Steve Geddes wrote:

I just figured you’d like to know. It’s quite likely this thread will be locked too (whereas you’ll get an answer via community@paizo.com).

I’d expect that if you want to “go up the chain” then following their preferred process for complaints is a far better avenue than a messageboard post.

All I can do is try. I'll give it a shot and send you a PM with any results.

I guess I like tilting at windmills.

I would find a certain amount of humor if they lock a thread asking how to contact executives about grievances. Judging from recent conduct I wouldn't be shocked if they decided to delete it instead.
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They may delete it - don’t take it as disrespect to say there isn’t a lot of new information here, so leaving it up may not be viewed as helpful.

The reason I expect we’ll see a reopened thread to discuss the minis down the track is that I’ve seen many controversies over the years at Paizo (this one wouldn’t even make the top five, really). I’ve always found their processes fair - I’ve received lengthy and thorough replies (privately) when I’ve raised concerns and they always strive to be transparent and open to criticism/feedback.

Nonetheless, they have a preferred way of dealing with things and it has to be scalable - they definitely don’t want to set a precedent where if one is unhappy with a staff member’s decisions then the done thing is to go onto the message boards and thrash it out in public.

Of course, we’re all going to disagree with Paizo’s stance from time to time, but I find it useful to remember that they are running a business and hosting an online community. That brings obligations (perceived or otherwise) and a perspective that doesn’t always line up with what we as individuals are looking for.

One thing I know from living in Seattle is they're deliberate and put more thought and introspection into decisions.

But, once a decision is made, they're swift to implement it.

For example, when we first moved there we applied for jobs EVERYWHERE, didn't hear a thing for weeks, and if you asked about it they'd get super annoyed, but three weeks later you'd get a ton of calls.

So, don't worry if it takes awhile, life operates more casually there, you're not forgotten.
Steve Geddes wrote:

They may delete it - don’t take it as disrespect to say there isn’t a lot of new information here, so leaving it up may not be viewed as helpful.

The reason I expect we’ll see a reopened thread to discuss the minis down the track is that I’ve seen many controversies over the years at Paizo (this one wouldn’t even make the top five, really). I’ve always found their processes fair - I’ve received lengthy and thorough replies (privately) when I’ve raised concerns and they always strive to be transparent and open to criticism/feedback.

Nonetheless, they have a preferred way of dealing with things and it has to be scalable - they definitely don’t want to set a precedent where if one is unhappy with a staff member’s decisions then the done thing is to go onto the message boards and thrash it out in public.

Of course, we’re all going to disagree with Paizo’s stance from time to time, but I find it useful to remember that they are running a business and hosting an online community. That brings obligations (perceived or otherwise) and a perspective that doesn’t always line up with what we as individuals are looking for.

It kinda scares me to ask, but can you PM me your top five? Just for my own curiosity, I'm not looking for new causes but I think this one is pretty bad on a behaviour level.

Have they told you anything on this? I know your out a sizable amount from this.

Don't worry about offending me, I appreciate you input and perspective.

Edit added the word 'worry'
captain yesterday wrote:

One thing I know from living in Seattle is they're deliberate and put more thought and introspection into decisions.

But, once a decision is made, they're swift to implement it.

For example, when we first moved there we applied for jobs EVERYWHERE, didn't hear a thing for weeks, and if you asked about it they'd get super annoyed, but three weeks later you'd get a ton of calls.

So, don't worry if it takes awhile, life operates more casually there, you're not forgotten.

Thanks for that, in my work you can't wait to deal with problems or they get can get far worse. For me and in my perspective the amount of time this has been festering seems to have gone from deliberate introspection to avoidance of something that is messy and uncomfortable to deal with.

I'm about to do the email Steve suggested. Would you like for me to pm any response I receive?

I don't do private messages, so no, but thanks anyway!
Silas Stadatilas wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:

One thing I know from living in Seattle is they're deliberate and put more thought and introspection into decisions.

But, once a decision is made, they're swift to implement it.

For example, when we first moved there we applied for jobs EVERYWHERE, didn't hear a thing for weeks, and if you asked about it they'd get super annoyed, but three weeks later you'd get a ton of calls.

So, don't worry if it takes awhile, life operates more casually there, you're not forgotten.

Thanks for that, in my work you can't wait to deal with problems or they get can get far worse. For me and in my perspective the amount of time this has been festering seems to have gone from deliberate introspection to avoidance of something that is messy and uncomfortable to deal with.

I'm about to do the email Steve suggested. Would you like for me to pm any response I receive?

Eh, book and game publishing runs at a glacial pace, what they turn in tomorrow won't reach my hands for another six months.

So, I'd still try to be patient.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8
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My general experience with Paizo and similar companies who generally communicate well when they are able, is that they don't share information when either they a) don't have the information and don't want to jump the gun on sharing what they do know until they are sure what they know is correct, or b) have legal reasons not to share it.

Given this involves a licensee there may indeed be legal issues preventing them from discussing the issue openly. Many legal relationships or situations require, if not by law then by discretion advised by a lawyer, silence while they are ongoing.

Mind, this is entirely speculation on my part, but I've been here for over 10 years and I've seldom seen Paizo behave in any way that didn't have good reasoning behind it, even if sometimes midway through a situation things looked bad.

You trust Paizo or you don't. Evaluate your prior business interactions with them. Did they do things to earn your trust or not? If you trust them, you'll presume their silence likely exists for a reason and wait to see what happens. If you don't trust them and/or believe they are acting in bad faith, then, presuming they really are bad faith actors, they have no reason to respond to you whether you think they should or not. And respond accordingly with where you choose to spend your money.

I'm not ready to make that final decision yet and, frankly, I've already sent the email Steve suggested. I figure I'll take advice here and see how it goes. It's a while before AA3 comes out anyways.

I appreciate your speculation and I have a good deal of knowledge and background in that area. I have suggested ways to deal with a non-disclosure agreement, but Customer Service says they don't know if one exists or not because they can't get their questions answered. The lack of communication with their own Customer Service is just strange and short sighted. Plus, Lawyers don't always recommend silence and silence is not always due to the suggestion of lawyers.

Personally, I am tired of speculating, and I don't like presuming.

I would like the statement that we were told is forthcoming and an answer to a yes or no question, so I asked. I'll either get an answer or silence. It's my time to waste, and I have the belief that continuing to ask questions has a much better chance of a positive resolution for backers than just going away in silence. Could be wrong, heck they may delete my account and all my posts tomorrow. They have the power here, I'm just one person asking questions.

Plus, there is something to be said that if you do something inappropriate someone may call you out on it instead of just going away or ignoring it.

Thanks for taking the time to post, I appreciate it.

Take care
Silas Stadatilas wrote:
Have they told you anything on this? I know your out a sizable amount from this.

I'll PM you the rest, but just to be clear - I didn't mean they communicate privately about publicly raised questions. I mean that following the email route has always borne fruit for me - I don't always get the answer I want, but I always get a well thought out answer.

I haven't sent any email about the Ninja Division kickstarter. Their public statements seem clear enough to me.
Scarab Sages
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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Silas Stadatilas wrote:
The lack of communication with their own Customer Service is just strange and short sighted.

I don't find it that strange. They've said they're trying to find some kind of resolution. Most of the information that's being demanded is likely confidential (I get that people want to know why Paizo said they had confidence in Ninja Division despite the red flags, but I think it's extremely unlikely they're ever going to share what was discussed in private negotiations) or sensitive if they're working with Ninja Division toward some resolution.

Sharing that information with Customer Service puts that team in a terrible position. They can then say they know, but can't tell you. Or they can lie and say they don't know. I'd never put one of my teams in that position.
TomParker wrote:
Silas Stadatilas wrote:
The lack of communication with their own Customer Service is just strange and short sighted.
Sharing that information with Customer Service puts that team in a terrible position. They can then say they know, but can't tell you. Or they can lie and say they don't know. I'd never put one of my teams in that position.

Not sharing information with Customer Service, especially basic information, places Customer Service as a target for beatings instead of accomplishing anything. It would have been more honest and more transparent if the Customer service reps would have been instructed to say months ago that Paizo will not answer any questions about what occurred and their role in the failure rather than give the impression at least some questions would be answered. Selectively stating that some questions will not be answered in a thread gives the impression others will.

I would imagine you wouldn't put one of your team's in the situation I described and I would also imagine that if you told your customer service agents that an officer of your company is working on a statement, and let them post that publicly, that statement would not take more than two months to appear.
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Yeah, I flagged that. You can't suggest or advocate violence against others, hypothetical or otherwise.

I used to work at a thrift store and was threatened to get beaten up because I wouldn't haggle over a coffee cup.

I WAS sympathetic, but not anymore.
Silver Crusade
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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah, flagged that too.
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Come on.

Some Kickstarters fail. You (should) know that going in. Investor beware.

Also, sometimes people are wrong. Giving a reference is not a guarantee that the entity referenced will never fail.

Also also, issues involving a licensee don't get discussed with end-users, regardless of "ways to work around an NDA".

Also also also, customer service being unable to get answers doesn't indicate a failure to communicate within a company. It indicates that there is no information available for end-users that can be released to customer service.

Paizo isn't in the business or habit of doing things wrong. No matter how much you want answers or comments, their lack tells you they aren't currently available to be had, because reasons that aren't available for disclosure. Asking louder and more frequently won't help.
captain yesterday wrote:

Yeah, I flagged that. You can't suggest or advocate violence against others, hypothetical or otherwise.

I used to work at a thrift store and was threatened to get beaten up because I wouldn't haggle over a coffee cup.

I WAS sympathetic, but not anymore.

Huh, I guess I was not clear, I did not suggest or advocate for violence, to clarify, there is a tendency for customer service to be put in front of a company to take the brunt of customer complaints and anguish while shielding those who are actually taking the actions or creating the policy. That is what I was taking issue with, is that clearer?

Anguish wrote:
Asking louder and more frequently won't help.

Silence does not help either. As stated above, I've sent my e-mail and we'll see what, if anything, they do. I've been told that is the proper method if I want to try and accomplish anything.

If you want to discuss the other issues contained in your post, I can reply in PM.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8
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Folks, he's sent his missive. I don't think continuing this conversation is helpful at this point.

Yup, I agree!
Anguish wrote:

Come on.

Some Kickstarters fail. You (should) know that going in. Investor beware.

He didn't invest in the Kickstarter. He didn't lose any money. He has made himself a spokesperson for a group that he isn't a member of.

Grand Lodge

If he's not allowed to talk about it, then neither am I.

I am not a spokes person, I speak only for me. Never claimed to be their spokes person. Just one person asking questions.

EDIT: Rest of post deleted because it just didn't add to the discussion.
Grand Lodge
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As a general customer of Paizo I think he has some merit to ask the questions as it goes to Paizo's general responsiveness to its customer-base. However, as someone not directly affected by the ND issue, pushing too hard can appear to be disingenuous and trollish more interested in causing problems. It is a fine line to walk, similar to the difference between supporting a cause and being a social justice warrior (pejorative).

I am also interested in what Paizo has to say about Ninja Division and the kickstarter, but since I don't have a horse in the race, I'm not gonna push it. I guess I'm one of the people that could say "see, I told ya so," but that doesn't help the discussion either. At the end of the day, its just a sad state of affairs. I truly hope that something changes and ND is able to fulfill their commitment not only to the customers who supported them, but also to Paizo since this reflects on their choice to do business with them in the first place. There are A LOT of us who questioned it from the start and wondered why they didn't just go with WizKids considering how well that relationship has worked out. I'm just speculating, but if WizKids had taken on Starfinder minis, we might already have 2-3 full sets and talking about a fourth.
Dark Archive
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TwilightKnight wrote:
There are A LOT of us who questioned it from the start and wondered why they didn't just go with WizKids considering how well that relationship was worked out. I'm just speculating, but if WizKids had taken on Starfinder minis, we might already have 2-3 full sets and talking about a fourth.

Both WizKids and Reaper were approached first according to Paizo's COO Jeff Alvarez, and for various reasons neither of them was interested in creating a new Starfinder line. Sci-fi / sci-fan game settings have traditionally not been very successful outside of the Star Wars / Star Trek franchises (and even those are fairly spotty). Starfinder's resounding success was literally unprecedented and not something any company could have predicted, so WizKids needing to expand their bandwidth to do it would likely have involved a significant investment of funds with very little data to justify the expense.

Lantern Lodge Customer Service & Community Manager
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As I mentioned in the original ND thread, I've been focused on PaizoCon trying to wrap up the schedule so that we can have events at PaizoCon and people can register for them. As such, when the thread began to escalate dramatically over the last week, it finally came to the point on Friday where I deemed it best to close it until I could monitor it a little better (hopefully sometime this week). Occasionally this happens on our forums with various subjects or discussions. We have no full-time moderation staff. I split my time between managing CS & PaizoCon & the forum Community. The Miniatures Kickstarter Ninja Division was closed Friday morning so that the thread did not continue to devolve while I tried to finish up the schedule.

When a thread or topic is closed for discussion, permanently or temporarily, by a moderator on our forums, it is not appropriate to open additional threads, particularly on weekends outside of our business hours. Creating multiple discussions or new threads in this manner is counter productive for everyone involved.

With regards to contacting Paizo executives, as was noted up thread, you are always welcome to email customer.service or community at paizo.com and we can forward your feedback or questions along to the appropriate executive(s). If you feel its something that needs to bypass customer service & community, you can find our mailing address on our contact us page linked in the menu at the bottom of the page.

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