I would assume you have to touch their actual body and not just their armor. So if they are wearing armor that covers most of their body wouldn't that make it harder to touch them on an uncovered spot? Therefore, shouldn't it apply?
Well, usually the things that hit touch are magical in nature, I believe. So it's less of hitting a specific part that doesn't have armor on it, and more of just going right through it as though it wasn't there. There are also firearms which would just punch right through armor. Even today's bulletproof vests can't protect against every type of ammunition.
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I would assume you have to touch their actual body and not just their armor.
Nope. This is the flip side of the fact that your armor (like other attended objects) gets your saving throws against spells/effects that target it. It kind of becomes an extension of your person when worn. Well, for some purposes---equipment saves and touch attacks.
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I would assume you have to touch their actual body and not just their armor.Nope. This is the flip side of the fact that your armor (like other attended objects) gets your saving throws against spells/effects that target it. It kind of becomes an extension of your person when worn. Well, for some purposes---equipment saves and touch attacks.
Yes, Pathfinder magic considers armor and clothing to be part of a person.
For a druid who shapechanges into a bear her armor disappears along with her original shape. Or if a character is turned into stone by a gorgon's gaze, then his armor, shield, and weapon turn to stone, too.
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For balance purposes, clothing/armor effectively "conducts" magic/touch effects. Otherwise we'd have bad guys wearing spandex over everything, and nylons over their faces so touch magic just can't work.
Also, it allows a mage who is wearing gloves/gauntlets/mittens to deliver their touch spells without taking the handwear off.
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I think you're looking at touch attacks the wrong way. Things are designated touch attacks because its been determined that the attack ignores the effect of armor for whatever reason.
Touch attacks ignore armor because that's the definition of a touch attack. If there were no attacks in the game that ignored armor then touch attacks wouldn't be a thing. They would just be normal attacks.
I like using lasers as my example when I talk about touch attacks. For instance, while an arrow needs to penetrate the targets armor a laser simply goes through the armor without stopping. Rays, in pathfinder, basically function as lasers which is why a Mirrored Shield or suit of armor provides its magical bonuses against rays but not its mundane protection.
As others stated, realistic concepts such as physics, chemistry, and biology don't really hold true in a world with magic. And the reasoning behind touch attacks and their dismissal or applicable armor bonuses varies from case to case.
A gunslinger's bullets are thought to be so forceful, that they'd puncture any armor that stands in their way. Therefore, "on target" should inflict damage on an enemy. Pretty hard to shoot pixies out of the air though.
Ray attacks usually represent elemental blasts of burning flame or intense cold. Things that sheets of leather or metal wouldn't protect from.
Most other touch attacks like calcific touch, shocking grasp just simply rely on magic to state that, the delivering hand only requires a target (armor) to discharge an effect that would hit the wearer of such armor.
Hits and misses in regards to the math of AC can be interpreted in many ways. From a solid whiff on a target to a glancing shot off a shield, to simply not being able to puncture plate mail even with a high roll.
As a DM I never outright tell my PCs what an enemy's AC is. But If the archer rolls a 22 on AC 24, I'll say. "you hear your arrow clink, connecting with the enemy's armor, but you realize that you missed the shoulder joint by mere inches".
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If you had to actually touch skin then winter clothing would protect just as much as full plate. I look at it like this: does armor prevent someone from clapping you on the shoulder or hitting you with a snowball? Those are touch attacks.
I like using lasers as my example when I talk about touch attacks. For instance, while an arrow needs to penetrate the targets armor a laser simply goes through the armor without stopping.
Where are you getting your lasers? Mine can barely penetrate smoke, let alone metal.
I like using lasers as my example when I talk about touch attacks. For instance, while an arrow needs to penetrate the targets armor a laser simply goes through the armor without stopping.Where are you getting your lasers? Mine can barely penetrate smoke, let alone metal.
Less cat toy more Death Star
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Less cat toy more Death StarI like using lasers as my example when I talk about touch attacks. For instance, while an arrow needs to penetrate the targets armor a laser simply goes through the armor without stopping.Where are you getting your lasers? Mine can barely penetrate smoke, let alone metal.
You don't let your cat play with your Death Star?
I get all my laser related products from Acmetrooper, its a mash-up of ACME and Stormtrooper technology guaranteed to follow the laws of stormtrooper accuracy with the safety standards of ACME products.
But yeah, I meant sci-fi lasers not real life lasers. Still, the real life laser isn't a bad example if you wanna talk Laser Tag, as all you need to do is successfully hit your opponent to register a connection.
Lets look at a simple, straightforward example- Shocking grasp.
There is a knight covered in thick, metal armor. A mage walks up to him with a hand full of crackling energy. Would the metal armor stop the mage from tasing the heck out of the knight?
I know that not all magics are as obviously conductive as electric spells. But that is still the general principle. Fire that turns that metal armor into a frying pan, for example.
If I was going to BS a cool image for other spells- how about spells that cling to the target? Imagine a shadowy, smoke based snatch that is wrapped around the magics arm, and instantly coils onto the target when it comes into target- the snake curse then slithers up the target and bites its neck (or other exposed areas).
Lets look at a simple, straightforward example- Shocking grasp.
There is a knight covered in thick, metal armor. A mage walks up to him with a hand full of crackling energy. Would the metal armor stop the mage from tasing the heck out of the knight?
its not a clean example, since shocking grasp gets a bonus to hit targets in metal armor.
When delivering the jolt, you gain a +3 bonus on attack rolls if the opponent is wearing metal armor (or is carrying a metal weapon or is made of metal).
In reality armor does not make you harder to hit, what it does is to prevent you from taking damage. The force of the blow is absorbed by the armor and the padding under the armor so that the person wearing armor is not affected. In reality wearing armor actually makes it easier to hit you, but most of the attacks that hit you are harmless.
In Pathfinder a hit is an attack that not only hits you, but is sufficiently powerful to penetrate any armor you are wearing. A touch attack is an attack that is able to bypass armors ability to absorb damage.
Also just because you take damage from an attack does not mean the attack has actually penetrated the armor. The armors ability to absorb damage is limited and some force of the blow will still be felt by the person wearing armor.
its not a clean example, since shocking grasp gets a bonus to hit targets in metal armor.
When delivering the jolt, you gain a +3 bonus on attack rolls if the opponent is wearing metal armor (or is carrying a metal weapon or is made of metal).
Not quite clean, but it does provide the image of what you are dealing with. The idea of a guy with a cattle prod, who doesn't care if you wear armor or have a thick hide.
When I think of touch based spells, I either of various types of energy that would affect things through common materials for armor (turning it into a frying pan, a refrigerator, etc) or insidious masses of curse style that is dangerous to even have in close proximity because it attacks directly to your soul, mind, lifeforce, etc.
This is not definitive for the various types of touch attacks... but it is what I would imagine designers had in mind when designing the concept of the touch attack.
In Pathfinder a hit is an attack that not only hits you, but is sufficiently powerful to penetrate any armor you are wearing. A touch attack is an attack that is able to bypass armors ability to absorb damage.
I would also include precise attacks hit gaps in the armor, like a good ol' eye stab to a helmeted knight. But touch attacks don't have to worry about hitting hard or getting into the gaps of defenses.