DM Newbie, small party finding CR1 encounters hard.

[JDnator]

My group is only 3 strong, we normally play fantasy board games but just recently i decided to up the ante and give the pathfinder beginner's box a go.
obviously we loved it and now i am eager to try some first steps into building my own dungeon. however, it means that they are only a party of 2....

with this in mind, I don't want to ramble too much so i will try and get to the point.

I purchased the NPC codex as I wanted a few humanoid encounters. (plus my friends aren't quite used to the idea that they don't have to attack anything that moves yet). however in practice, even the low level NPC's can be quite tough for a pair of 1st level adventurers.

I'm trying to find a good balance so all the fights aren't just 2 Vs 1s. i wondered if just giving them for example some potions that offer some form of DR would suffice. is a potion of "stoneskin" something that a 1st level fighter can use?

should i encourage them to be more creative (is setting some traps or bringing some thrown items a good idea? which ones?)

or is there a better way, what other player aids are recommended.

thanks for your time, for any answers/ recommendations.

[Ediwir]

I would advise first of all to visit the Pathfinder First Edition forums for more details: https://paizo.com/community/forums/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG

That said, a party of 2 is going to require some adjustments - most adventures and challenges assume a party of 4, so your friends are clearly in an uphill battle here. I'd say try to scale encounters back (one or two levels even), or perhaps suggest they hire some help.

Small scale parties tend to have resource issues too, so be generous with potions and scrolls.

[Sam Phelan]

Moved to Pathfinder RPG Advice.

[Melkiador]

Parties of 2 are pretty rough. You’ll want to find some way of increasing their power or lowering the difficulty. For those new to Pathfinder, increasing the party level might be good. If I were GMing a group like that, I’d probably give them a mythic tier, but the mythic rules are a bit much for new people.

[doomman47]

With only 2 players even though you said you are new I would look into tristalt might make things a bit easier for them to deal with also up their stats a little bit.

[Melkiador]

I’d probably just let them have two character each, rather than try to run something like gestalt or tristalt.

[doomman47]

Its honestly less to keep track of if they gestalt or tristalt than running multiple characters both for the players and the gm.

[Melkiador]

doomman47 wrote:

Its honestly less to keep track of if they gestalt or tristalt than running multiple characters both for the players and the gm.

I think tristalt would be more to keep track of. Gestalt is a little less. I’d be more worried about new players figuring out what they get every level. But neither of those fix the actual problem of action economy. It doesn’t matter if the characters can do lots of things, if you still have a limited number of actions to do those things.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Jdizzle,

Encounters in the CR system for Pathfinder are built around parties of 4 people. A CR 1 encounter as an Average challenge for 4, level 1 PCs is worth 400 XP. This means that each individual PC at level 1 should be able to handle 100 XP worth of monsters in an Average encounter at level 1.

With this as a baseline, Average CR Encounter XP/4 players, you can figure the expected budget for an individual PC at any level. Using those numbers you can "buy" monsters to add to your encounters to build them for 2 PCs.

If a typical CR 1 encounter translates to 100 XP/character, then for your 2 friends an Average challenge for CR 1 is 200 XP. This likely means 2 CR 1/4 monsters (worth 100 XP each), maybe 2 CR 1/3 monsters (worth 135 XP each; slightly over budget), or 1 CR 1/2 monster.

As for how to make things easier for your friends to muddle through encounters, there are a lot of different ways. Managing the number and difficulty of the enemies is only part of it:

1. Remind your players or print up a cheat sheet with tactics they can use to gain advantage against opponents, things like Flanking, Higher Ground, or Aid Another

2. Allow players to have level-appropriate consumable magic items. A potion of Stoneskin for example is much too powerful for a level 1 PC being a 3rd level Summoner spell, however a potion of Shield of Faith for a quick Deflection bonus is fine as it is a level 1 spell

3. Give the PCs bonus Feats. This one will take some management on your part to make sure the PCs don't get too powerful too fast, but allowing them a bonus Feat at perhaps level 1, then 4 and every 4 levels afterwards might be ok

4. Plan out a variety of encounters. Throwing only combat at the players might destroy them, but having an occasional encounter that might be resolved through negotiation or intimidation, bribery or other skills/spells/abilities is not only survivable but makes things interesting. Not every encounter needs be lethal to challenge your players

5. Apply the Young template or start monsters at half HP. Think about this encounter: your 2 PCs at level 1 stumble on a ghoul. This could be a total party kill for a group of 4 seasoned adventurers; certainly this might be too much for your friends. However, add the wrinkle that the creature has been weakened by a prolonged period of dire hunger without any corpses to consume (apply the Young template). The ghoul's attacks and abilities are slightly less effective while the PCs have a 10% greater chance of hitting with theirs. Heck, the creature might even ignore a fight all together if the players offer to help the pitiful ghoul secure food...

6. Have each player run 2 characters, or add in an NPC minion. Currently I've got a group starting off at level 1 in a tough adventure path; lots of random encounters, some of which are wildly overpowered for their level. The players decided to make 3 melee-damage type characters and a magus to cover Arcane spells. After their first dust-up they realized not having someone with healing in the party was going to get them killed. At the next town they hired both an NPC Witch and an NPC with levels in Adept. The Witch is an actual level 1 witch that has the Cauldron hex and occasionally makes them potions... for profit. The Level 2 Adept is a lay priest who worships the entire pantheon of gods and for a nominal daily fee will stand near the party in battle, casting spells to heal/revitalize them and even carrying some of the party's gear.

7. Monsters that run away is always good. Again, not every encounter needs be lethal. Putting the party against, say, 3 goblins but once the first one falls the other 2 flee in terror is both a good feeling for your friends but an easy way to end a tough encounter.

8. Animal friends. This goes along with #6 above. Offer the PCs a chance to buy trained attack dogs, or to befriend an awakened hawk or something. They might not add much to the party's overall power but such minions have a number of skills and abilities that might help the party avoid some fights

Finally, there's a number of mundane items the PCs can carry with them to manage through lower level fights. My players enjoy spring-loaded bear traps. There's also cheap splash weapons like holy water or vials of Acid, oil prepared ahead of time to use as flaming splash weapons, slings with cold-iron sling stones, caltrops or marbles to shut down enemy charging lanes... just the core book alone has many things to give PCs an edge when they're just starting out.

The biggest thing to do is encourage your players to problem-solve using EVERY resource at their disposal. I had a group at level 1 who made it to the outskirts of a ruined tower on a tiny islet in a river. As they made land they were beset by FAR more kobolds than they were expecting. Spotting an earthen ramp leading up to the 2nd story entrance they needed they also noticed said approach was a narrow slot being guarded by several kobold sentries.

What follows has been called The Ballad of Ghost Shirt:

The PCs used a scroll of Obscuring Mist and 2 cantrips, Ghost Sound and Prestidigitation. This set one of the PCs' extra clothes, specifically their shirt, floating through the expanding mist with a wailing, moaning sound. Since it was only Prestidigitation the shirt floated very slowly. The PCs used this to their advantage and also lit the shirt up with a Dancing Lights cantrip on round 2.

The Kobolds for their part noticed a sudden fog rolling UPHILL from the shore through the slot they were guarding. The mist was followed by an ominous, glowing torso with a seemingly glowing figure inside of it, moaning an wailing. One epic Intimidation check by the PC wizard with Aid Another bonuses from the other PCs and all 6 of kobolds were scared out of their wits! A couple managed to keep their cool long enough to fire a couple arrows at the ghost but these missed prompting the creature to "notice" them and turn its slow, menacing presence on them.

All 6 kobolds broke and ran. The PCs, following slowly behind their "specter" used Stealth checks aided by distance and Concealment to make it to the top of the ramp completely unharmed. Unfortunately once there they found a tatzlwyrm that wasn't as gullible as its kobold "worshippers" but the party managed to defeat the beast in combat. This got them into the ruin without hardly any damage and launched an epic tale that continues in my games over 2 years later!

[Bloodrealm]

Prestidigitation can't pick up and move things; that's Mage Hand.

[Melkiador]

Quote:

A prestidigitation can slowly lift 1 pound of material.

[Ryze Kuja]

The CR system isn't something to be relied upon like bible, but is merely a guide. Some groups can absolutely pulverize a CR4 mob but then get decimated by a CR2 mob, and this comes down to a myriad of factors like group composition, what time in the day you fight the mob (spells and 1/day abilities might have already been used), and good/bad die rolls.

Whenever your group is just starting out at level 1, it might be tempting to throw CR1 monsters at them and I highly advise against this.

At that low of level, one bad die roll can result in death or possibly start the ball rolling on a TPK. So what I do is use CR1/3 and CR1/2 mobs, but then have multiple monsters. If the PC's seem completely unchallenged by the encounter, you can always throw a 2nd wave of the same or similar CR monsters. I usually don't do equal lvl CR mobs on my players until level 4+. By then your PCs have spells, feats, and class abilities, and some low level potions/items that can help them survive. Once the group has access to resurrection and reviving effects, that's when you can pull the kid gloves off and start swinging for the fences.