How to Deal With Hostage Taking


Homebrew


RAW, I can't find a way to make taking a hostage viable or dangerous. Most creatures can survive a single shot, and even if they can't they wont be of much value inn that case. Due to this in my games we play that if you can place a gun or other weapon in a place that a single attack could kill them, such as through a grapple, you can as a reaction when another creature takes an action, coup de grace the creature. I know that this could theoretically 1-shot the boss, but there's a reason why they have so much protection then. Any feedback on this mechanic would be great!


Use a dead mans switch and explosives?


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Use a dead mans switch and explosives?

I see your point, I just think that having to go to that length to take a hostage is a bit extreme, and I want more primitive cultures to be able to do this as well, I just want to know if there is anything really broken with this.


Just in a grapple seems like it would be way too easy, even for your players to get in quick coup de graces.

I think it should be more like:

You can ready a coup de grace against a legal target for a coup de grace or a target that is pinned even though it's not a standard action. Offensive readied actions do take place before the coup attempt.

Making it so they're pinned or already tied up keeps it from being too easy for PCs or NPCs to do.

Letting offensive actions happen first would keep low level monsters from easily threatening a PC if they pin them, but a boss who can survive a solarian's charge and a soldier's heavy weapon would still be threatening if they took someone hostage.


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Shoot the hostage. Every time.


Garretmander wrote:

Just in a grapple seems like it would be way too easy, even for your players to get in quick coup de graces.

I think it should be more like:

You can ready a coup de grace against a legal target for a coup de grace or a target that is pinned even though it's not a standard action. Offensive readied actions do take place before the coup attempt.

Making it so they're pinned or already tied up keeps it from being too easy for PCs or NPCs to do.

Letting offensive actions happen first would keep low level monsters from easily threatening a PC if they pin them, but a boss who can survive a solarian's charge and a soldier's heavy weapon would still be threatening if they took someone hostage.

Really like this, I'll use this!


TronTheAllmighty wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Use a dead mans switch and explosives?
I see your point, I just think that having to go to that length to take a hostage is a bit extreme, and I want more primitive cultures to be able to do this as well, I just want to know if there is anything really broken with this.

Anything that lets the guy point a guy will let the party point guns at him.

bad Guy: i ready an action if anyone does anything.

4 good guys: i ready an action if if pulls the trigger

1 party member i shoot him in the head.

If you reverse starfinders offensive actions go last policy then the 4 good guys are the first to go.


Why, exactly, would a hostage who can't survive a single shot be of no value? Do the PCs not care to rescue helpless bystanders and innocent victims of kidnappers? Most of those are not going to be adventurers, and not going to have anywhere near the durability of an adventurer.

As for coup de grace, there's a reason they require a helpless victim. If you need to threaten a coup against a hostage, tie them up first.


Cinematically

Edit: Not everything needs rules nor does it need to be done by the rules.


Claxon wrote:

Cinematically

Edit: Not everything needs rules nor does it need to be done by the rules.

Agreed, with the caveat that the players need to know that the normal rules have been suspended and replaced with... something. And they really should know what that something is so they know how their characters would likely proceed.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Claxon wrote:

Cinematically

Edit: Not everything needs rules nor does it need to be done by the rules.

Agreed, with the caveat that the players need to know that the normal rules have been suspended and replaced with... something. And they really should know what that something is so they know how their characters would likely proceed.

You know what, I'm just going to use this. This blew up into my face. Who needs rules for corner cases?


It s a special initiative check and the hostage taker has a plus four bonus, every [bad guy level here] points of damage he takes is a minus 2 to his CDG attack roll?

Sovereign Court

Roughly speaking, what sort of things would you like to be possible?

* Single shot killing of "sufficiently helpless" hostages? This sounds like a Coup de Grace, which normally requires a helpless hostage, not just a pinned one. (Getting someone pinned can be done with 1-2 lucky attack rolls, that's very fast for creating hostage situations..) Binders and manacles can be used on pinned creatures so there's a way to get here that's not too long or short.

* How fast can you execute hostages? Can you ready an attack on a hostage? Normally a Coup de Grace is a full round action so can't be readied. Also, offensive ready actions go after the thing that triggered so you really can't normally do that.

* Is it supposed to be a guaranteed thing that the NPC can shoot the hostage before the PCs stop him? Or is it supposed to be a risk that the PCs can take - can we blitz him fast enough to save the hostage?

* In movies, hostage-takers can also die from a single bullet, just like their hostages. So you can have a tense standoff where the hero weighs if he's a fast enough gunman. In Starfinder, it'll generally take more than one hit to disable the hostage-taker so it's hard to reproduce this scene.

---

If I wanted to set up a hostage scene, I'd do it like this. Leave the rules like they are now. Start the encounter with talking, and the villain has a handcuffed hostage next to him. If the PCs go violent, then we roll initiative.

If the PCs win initiative they can try to protect the hostage (move hostage away from the villain, break or open his handcuffs so he's not helpless anymore, bullrush the villain, disarm the villain etc.).

When the villain's initiative comes up (and maybe he won initiative - that's a risk the PCs take!) if he's still next to the hostage he can do the coup de grace.

Using skills (bluff, sense motive, stealth, perception) both sides can try to get some advantage, maybe even a surprise round.

I think this is a decent compromise between "it takes more than one shot to drop the hostage taker so why could he one-shot the hostage" and "I want there to be a real deadly risk to the hostage". It also doesn't require any special rules exceptions. It just means that we accept that you can't exactly do everything in the game the precise same way you'd do it in a movie, but you can get close to it.


You could also incorporate some kind of environmental thing, so instead of threatening the hostage with a gun, you drop them into a pit of acid, or a New Hope style trash compactor. Hell, an airlock would be ok, save the hostage before it cycles while the bad guy runs away!

Or how about the hostage wearing a grenade vest, or homebrew up some kind of rig made of C4 and ball bearings to put on there.

Or some cinderblock shoes and a somewhat deep tank of water.

Or an old favorite, the hostage is strapped to a table of some kind, and is either going to be fed to a big saw, or a grinding device. Or keep it closer to sci-fi, and there’s a laser gradually moving upwards to bisect them (I expect you to die!)


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
It s a special initiative check and the hostage taker has a plus four bonus, every [bad guy level here] points of damage he takes is a minus 2 to his CDG attack roll?

Wow. I love this. It capture what I see perfectly. The heroes shoot him and his gun just misses the hostage. Using this. 100%.


The only way to make a hostage situation tense and dangerous is to suspend the rules a bit.

It is imperative that the hostage is restrained and helpless. The allows the CDG chance.

If the party bursts in they best have initiative or the hostage is most likely dead.

Trust me the first time a party watches a hostage die, they take every other similar situation seriously and plan accordingly.

I do like BigNorseWolf's addition to the hostage stand off.


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Or the hostage taker has a needler loaded up with a scary deadly disease serum stolen from a military bioweapon lab. We all know no one's going to survive the Starfinder disease track.


I like Alucard's answer for hostage situations.

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