I'm fond of high charisma paladins (divine grace) and high intelligence pact wizards (free action intelligence to saving throws at 15th) for their reliably decent saving throws. What other classes/archetypes either have one attribute to all saves or simply crazy-good passive bonuses to saves without spending a swift, immediate or standard action?
Monks, obviously. Also if you're not using some variant of fractional saves, multiclassing can get you amazing saves.
Magi can cast spells and make a full attack in the same action. Not a lot of their spells give save bonuses but there are some, and spell blending may let them steal relevant spells off the wizard list.
If you can somehow swing the animal type, a nature mystery oracle can get Cha to all saves.
Also dwarves are good for saves anyway and can get a feat (steel soul IIRC) to make them better, a barbarian with the superstitious rage power has good saves while raging especially with a human or tengu alternate FCB, and there's the witch killer slayer archetype if you want to be superstitious all the time. I don't recommend it but it is possible.
Perhaps, but unless done very carefully the character will suck in most other respects.
Destined Bloodrager Bloodline (and sorcerer? The wording was less clear) gets a scaling luck bonus to all saves. The Fate's Favoured trait can increase this.
I see a lot of people suggesting multiclassing, but that's not true. Only at first level (i.e. only once) do you get the +2 bonus on a save.
For example: you start out as a ranger at lvl 1
base save: +2 fort, +2 ref, +0 will
if you take cleric as 2nd level (base save at lvl 1: +2 fort, +0 ref, +2 will) your base saves don't become: +4 fort, +2 ref, +4 will.
There are two type of save progression: Good save, Bad save.
For the ranger in this example, he has 2 good saves (Fort and Ref), 1 bad save (Will).
For the cleric in this example, he has 2 good saves (Fort and Will), 1 bad save (Ref)
The good saves progress with a +1/2 per level, the bad saves with +1/3 per level. The "+2" bonus only comes once at first lvl of the charcter, not at every first lvl of a class.
The character base saves for a lvl 1 ranger would be:
Fort: +2.5 resulting in a +2
Ref: +2.5 resulting in a +2
Will: +1/3 rsulting in a +0
if he takes his 2nd lvl as ranger as well, both fort and ref increase with +1/2 and will with +1/3:
The character base saves for a lvl 2 ranger would be:
Fort: +3
Ref: +3
Will: +2/3 rsulting in a +0
If he takes 1 lvl in ranger and 1 lvl in cleric, the abse saves at charcter lvl 2 would be:
Fort: +3 (+1/2 1lvl ranger, +1/2 1lvl cleric, +2 base save at character lvl1 good save)
Ref: +2 5/6 (+1/2 1lvl ranger, +1/3 1lvl cleric, +2 base save character lvl1 good save), resulting in a +2
Will: +5/6 (+1/3 1lvl ranger, +1/2 1 lvl cleric, +0 base save lvl1 character bad save), resulting in a +0
In conclusion, multiclassing does not increase saves to wicked heights. You only get the "+2" on a good save once, at character lvl 1.
The same goed gor BAB progression.
This can all be found in the rules HERE
I see a lot of people suggesting multiclassing, but that's not true. Only at first level (i.e. only once) do you get the +2 bonus on a save.
This can all be found in the rules HERE
Take a look at that link. "other-rules/unchained-rules". These aren't the regular rules, these are purely optional rules.
To quote the book: "This fractional base bonuses variant is designed to help multiclass characters fulfill their true potential and stand tall among their single-class peers. It is ideal for campaigns featuring many multiclass characters, particularly if those characters take levels in many different classes or prestige classes" PU pg. 40, emphasis mine.
"With Pathfinder Unchained, you become the designer—which parts of this book you incorporate into your game, and which parts you leave on the shelf, are entirely your call." PU pg. 4
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Danny, fractional saves are an optional rule. A good rule, but optional, and without it the +2s stack as much as you like. This is the case in many games including those run under the Pathfinder Society and also in many home games.
Ninja'd but I also briefly mentioned it in the second post of this thread. A quantum superposition of ninjas?
Ive never before found someone that thinks the unchained's optional/variant rules are precedent for how the core rules work. Then again i've also never played with a DM that used anything from unchained except the classes.
Are there any ways for a nature oracle to be treated as an animal without actually becoming an animal / waiting for 20th level?
(and if you have any other high saves class or archetype suggestions, keep them coming)
Ah, I stand corrected.
However, does that mean, that in PFS games, a lvl 10 character with 10 different class (e.g. Fighter, Paladin, Magus, Sorcerer, Ranger, Rogue, Wizard, Bard, Cleric, cMonk) has base saves of:
Fort: +12
Ref: +8
Will: +14
Those are base saves higher than any other class can have at lvl 20.
Irregadless of whether such a character would make sense or not (alignment wise it is possible), it does seems a bit broken to me. A lvl 10 character having better base saves than a lvl 20 class character.
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Destined Bloodrager Bloodline (and sorcerer? The wording was less clear) gets a scaling luck bonus to all saves. The Fate's Favoured trait can increase this.
It's a little off-topic, but for an option that doesn't depend on class, Fate's Favored also works nicely with the half-orc's Sacred Tattoo alternate racial trait. (I took that combo for my Dark Archive shaman, because I knew he would be prone to doing unwise things to satisfy his [and Zarta's] curiosity.)
Irregadless of whether such a character would make sense or not (alignment wise it is possible), it does seems a bit broken to me. A lvl 10 character having better base saves than a lvl 20 class character.
Well, that character would have a BAB or +3 and no spellcasting above 1st level. It may be "broken", but not overpowered - I'd rather have an actual character in my party, thank you very much.
Yes, the fractional bonuses system from Unchained is vastly superior to the base system, but it's not the default.
Oracles of certain mysteries (Life, Lunar, Nature) have ways to make charisma do more than its share of the work for their defenses.
Perhaps, but unless done very carefully the character will suck in most other respects.Nevertheless, I am very flattered by your comment that you find my idea so powerful that you think it should be illegal.
I definitely missed part of the comment somewhere.
No one believes that extensive multi-classing is so powerful that it should be illegal :P. It could be vaguely useful for saves. If you want a lot of channel energy uses, you can also multiclass several times and it will have a niche use, but 40 1d6 channels won't be illegally good.