This is a bit of a weird set of questions, but in this game I'm running it may just come up. I'd love some opinions.
1) If you use flesh to stone on a simulacrum, does it turn to stone since it's currently flesh? What happens when you deal 'fatal damage' to the object? Does it turn from stone to snow and melt?
2) Simulacrums mimics innate biological functions, such as breath weapons or racial skill bonuses. If a simulacrum is pretending to be a lover of somebody, say to make them distracted or because the original wants to go about her work, can the simulacrum fall pregnant or sire children?
3) How much does a simulacrum remember from the original creature? If a simulacrum remembers how to craft a sword and the original learned from a master, does it have those memories? If you need a willing assistant to provide the memories, how much control does the caster have over what it remembers?
4) Should I make popcorn for this thread?
TFW my partner comes home randomly with popcorn.
Nah, I'm just expecting a variety of entertaining theories. I enjoy different perspectives.
I've spoken with developers in depth about sims. Things I can tell you with certainty:
1. Sims are treated in every way like real creatures except for what is explicitly spelled out in the spell descriptions. In short, Meirril is correct.
2. Sims cannot get pregnant as sims have no ability to grow more powerful, and creating spawn is one means of becoming more powerful.
What I can't answer with any certainty is #3. I personally think sims would have the memories of those they are mimicking (otherwise they wouldn't be great mimics), but I also recognize the huge can of worms that opens up.
Need to know where the king keeps his most prized possession, and what protections he uses to protect it, and how to bypass them? Create a sim of the king, get your answers, then throw them in the trash as you have your sim walk in and retrieve the treasure for you.
Want to know how the enemy general thinks, and what next move he's planning for your army? Have your war wizard create a sim of him and ask him for whatever strategic information your heart desires.
I miss the days when the spell required a part of the creature as a material component.
Thanks for the replies guys. Good thoughts, and I like Ravingdork's thoughts gleamed from the devs on #2. I agree that growing a family is a means to become more powerful, and magic is inflexible in its rules enough to perhaps reflect that?
3) one assumes (aka GM gray area) it has half the knowledge (general memories) of the original creature but nothing specific unless the caster knows that information and provides it to the simulacrum upon creation. So a simulacrum of Bob generally knows how to act as Bob but can be uncovered by someone who knew Bob and overcomes the Disguise check that originally created the simulacrum.
Yeah I thought that'd be the case as well. In some APs we've seen simulacrum knowing all of what a person knows up to when it was made. Maybe if you're present you can 'gift' the simulacrum the memories? I wonder if that's specific to the one who would cast the spell?
4) a snow cone would be more appropriate.
Maybe meet in the middle with an ice cream sandwich?
I'll note that with Simulacrum the Sense Motive check of 20 is quite low as this 7th level spell becomes available at 13th level. At that level any character with some ranks (say 7ranks +1 Wis + 3 class skill = +11) in Sense Motive is going to make that DC on average.
I always thought that was just for individuals and that familiarity was a reference to the language used for disguises? The preceding check of Disguise vs Perception seems to indicate that. So a DC20 Sense Motive may detect "That isn't Steve! He's an impostor!", but not "That isn't Steve, that's a simulacrum!".
Then maybe that's not what it means. Maybe if you made a generic simulacrum of a cat, not copying an individual cat, does that Sense Motive check make you go "Hey, that's not a cat at all!"?
...I think the idea of 'no ability to grow more powerful' has to be fairly narrowly read as: can't gain experience or otherwise increase in level.
Giving a simulacrum a magical weapon makes it more powerful, does that mean it can't wield a magical weapon? Can a simulacrum of a wizard not copy new spells into a spellbook? Can a simulacrum not make friends with a powerful being, thus gaining an ally (very close to the 'spawn' issue)? Does a simulacrum with the leadership ability, who gets an item boosting CHR, not gain new followers? Can a simulacrum of a summoner not summon any creatures, or their eidolon? There are nearly an infinite number of ways for a simulacrum to 'become more powerful', and I can't imagine that they all are off limits, or really any of them beyond the narrow interpretation already mentioned.
The game developer I spoke to used undead like vampires as an example. Vampire sims could not create spawn. This makes me think that sims could not reproduce in a more...traditional fashion. Your mileage may vary though. Do what you think is best for your table.
The game developer I spoke to used undead like vampires as an example. Vampire sims could not create spawn. This makes me think that sims could not reproduce in a more...traditional fashion. Your mileage may vary though. Do what you think is best for your table....I think the idea of 'no ability to grow more powerful' has to be fairly narrowly read as: can't gain experience or otherwise increase in level.
Giving a simulacrum a magical weapon makes it more powerful, does that mean it can't wield a magical weapon? Can a simulacrum of a wizard not copy new spells into a spellbook? Can a simulacrum not make friends with a powerful being, thus gaining an ally (very close to the 'spawn' issue)? Does a simulacrum with the leadership ability, who gets an item boosting CHR, not gain new followers? Can a simulacrum of a summoner not summon any creatures, or their eidolon? There are nearly an infinite number of ways for a simulacrum to 'become more powerful', and I can't imagine that they all are off limits, or really any of them beyond the narrow interpretation already mentioned.
Note that James Jacobs specifies his own personal take on things, he does not claim that his comments are official. However, his comments do tend to hold weight on the forums so for reference :
You can make a vampire simulacrum, but it can't create spawn
Simulacrums should not gain mythic powers. That'd be the province of a theoretical mythic simulacrum spell.
Healing damage to a simulacrum requires the alchemical process described in the spell; they don't heal from magic or naturally.
The more you get into what a simulacrum can and can't do, the more you ABSOLUTELY need your GM to make calls. It's the most complicated spell in the game. My calls:
Yes, a simulacrum can use all of those spells and items. Those don't increase its power in the same way that creating spawn (which is akin to having children) do—and no, simulacrums can't have children either. There's a difference between using an item that grants you new abilities or a spell that lets you command others and actually divesting a part of yourself to create something new... which is what create spawn (and having children) is about. Simulacrums aren't real in that sense, and can't propagate via biological or supernatural means.
Check out the Simulacrum thread. Some previous posts to mine have James Jacobs' thoughts on the spell, as well as many questions answered.
1) If you use flesh to stone on a simulacrum, does it turn to stone since it's currently flesh? What happens when you deal 'fatal damage' to the object? Does it turn from stone to snow and melt?
It turns to stone. Until the spell is broken, it remains stone, even if fatally damaged. If enough damage has occurred when the spell is lifted, then it becomes flesh briefly then snow.
2) Simulacrums mimics innate biological functions, such as breath weapons or racial skill bonuses. If a simulacrum is pretending to be a lover of somebody, say to make them distracted or because the original wants to go about her work, can the simulacrum fall pregnant or sire children?
They cannot create spawn, so children are likely covered.
Note that a hag's coven ability is allowed, since it is not gaining anything it doesn't get normally. This is the only way for a good witch to get a hag coven without making a deal with an evil creature. Especially since the hag must obey you [the sim. caster].
3) How much does a simulacrum remember from the original creature? If a simulacrum remembers how to craft a sword and the original learned from a master, does it have those memories? If you need a willing assistant to provide the memories, how much control does the caster have over what it remembers?
Per the linked thread, I think the answer was they memory was that of an average creature and not of a specific creature. This was due to the abuse in 1st ed DND on where getting X% full memory of the origional got too much info.
Consider Clone: The clone is physically identical to the original and possesses the same personality and memories as the original.
Consider Magic Jar: You keep your Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, level, class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, alignment, and mental abilities.
Consider Possession: You keep your Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, level, class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, alignment, and mental abilities.
These spells imply that memory only occurs once and is not duplicated.
I think getting a generic critter with generic critter memories is reasonable.
As to the Sense Motive or Perception check, it requires the detector be familiar with the original. The Sense Motive DC is that for a Hunch that it might be an imposter. If not familiar, you don't get a check.
4) Should I make popcorn for this thread?
Nah, make small ice cubes to put in you drink of choice.
/cevah
Your sources and opinions are both excellent, everybody. As usual your input has been not only helpful but well-thought out. Thank you for your replies thus far.
I feel this thread will be put to rest soon, but before that happens, does anybody have anything else they'd like to mention about sneaky simulacrums I should know? (From either a player or a DM's perspective).
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Check out the Simulacrum thread. Some previous posts to mine have James Jacobs' thoughts on the spell, as well as many questions answered.
*Clicks link*
*Reads third post*
Have I really been discussing this topic for a DECADE!?
I had an idea, but it required that a simulacrum to be a construct. I would heal the simulacrum using spells such as make whole, or other spells that could heal constructs. Unfortunately, after some investigating, it turns out that the simulacrum spell doesn't say at any point that the simulacrum is a construct.
I figured I would throw this idea out there in case someone can figure a work around.
The spell states: A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum.
This states "can" not "must". There is no reason normal healing spells won't work.
/cevah
Well:
(Illusion/Phantasm)
Range: Touch Components: V, S, M
Duration: Permanent Casting Time: Special
Area of Effect: 1 creature Saving Throw: None
By means of this spell, the wizard is able to create a duplicate of any creature. The duplicate appears to be exactly the same as the original, but there are differences: The simulacrum has only 51% to 60% (50% + 1d10%) of the hit points of the real creature, there are personality differences, there are areas of knowledge that the duplicate does not have, and a detect magic spell will instantly reveal it as a simulacrum, as will a true seeing spell. At all times the simulacrum remains under the absolute command of the wizard who created it. No special telepathic link exists, so command must be exercised in some other manner. The spell creates the form of the creature, but it is only a zombielike creation. A reincarnation spell must be used to give the duplicate a vital force, and a limited wish spell must be used to empower the duplicate with 40% to 65% (35% + 5 to 30%) of the knowledge and personality of the original. The level of the simulacrum, if any, is from 20% to 50% of that of the original creature.
The duplicate creature is formed from ice or snow. The spell is cast over the rough form and some piece of the creature to be duplicated must be placed inside the snow or ice. Additionally, the spell requires powdered ruby.
The simulacrum has no ability to become more powerful; it cannot increase its level or abilities. If destroyed, it reverts to snow and melts into nothingness. Damage to the simulacrum can be repaired by a complex process requiring at least one day, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped laboratory.
Both 2nd and 3.5 indicate "can" and not "must". Neither prohibits regular cure spells. I don't have 1st ed searchable, so cannot easily check without resort to my offline library )i.e. books).
/cevah
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Check out the Simulacrum thread. Some previous posts to mine have James Jacobs' thoughts on the spell, as well as many questions answered.*Clicks link*
*Reads third post*
Have I really been discussing this topic for a DECADE!?
Sometimes I stumble on old builds I came up with on other forums over a decade ago and get the same weird pride/discomfort sensation.