
djdust |

Now I’ve frequently encountered the opinion that poisons and poison use are trap options in Pathfinder. I’m curious as to why. I can maybe conjecture a few reasons as to why, but I haven’t yet experienced it much in play yet, so maybe you can help me understand why this seems to be a popular opinion.
-One: Poisons are more effective against PCs than NPCs. The reason why: 3d3 con dmg is much scarier to a PC, who is expected to survive the encounter she was poisoned in only to go on to fight in 4 more encounters that day. If a PC poisons a NPC in round 1 of combat, that NPC is likely to be dead by round 3, poisoned or not. So, the poison feels wasted.
-Two: Unless you have certain feats and/or class features, using poisons is dangerous as you put yourself at risk of poisoning yourself. That, and the action economy isn’t that great. By the time you poison your dagger and stab the baddie, the wizard has already fried him with a fireball.
-Three: Poisons aren’t likely to work in the first place. First you have to successfully apply them to a weapon, then successfully hit something with that weapon, then that something has to fail one or more saves. That’s three points of possible failures. The most effective tactics are the ones with the least amount of fail points.
-Four: doing some research, it seems at one point, crafting poisons used to be a huge limiting factor. Now that doesn’t seem to be the case anymore. And harvesting poisons from dead monsters isn’t too difficult, so I think this sticking point has been made moot.
It seems to me that poisons are best used in traps against PCs.
I do like the look and feel of the Diseases and Poisons Optional Rules which replaces ability damage with a progression of status effects. Flavor wise, it seems more true to life, and I wonder if it helps to eliminate any of the reasons highlighted above.
Are there more reasons not to fall for the poison use trap?

Githsarrin |

Djdust,
I agree with a lot of your remarks but there are a couple of reasons that poison is an option. Although your right that unless the user has the poison use class feature, feat, or ability they do risk being poisoned by their own poison, the risk is only 5%. The idea about apply the poison is also valid but there are ways around that, such as feats, abilities, and a sponge scabbard that allows for poison to be applied while the blade is drawn. The other reason that poison is used is for non-lethal reasons to incapacitate the npc. These reasons might help with why poison would be used by a player but your still right that it’s still not a great use item.

Cavall |
Really the only reason they could be a trap is because the party is made to take a bad guy down quickly. Poisons ARE, in fact, worse for a group because they unlike the npcs have to find a way to deal with the effects of poison after combat is over.
However there are some archetypes that brew poisons up just fine and for free. Also with a couple feats you can milk poison and increase its effectiveness.
If you're playing a drop them and move on kind of game maybe it's not the best way to pitch in (some options withstandibg) but I would say for a different style game, poison is a more than effective tool.

Isaac Zephyr |

The largest issue I've noticed with poisons when making a poison-using character was save DCs. With a few exceptions, the save DCs on poisons are way too low to work on most targets. That and price-wise poisons don't tend to be cheap per-dose. So it's a lot of investment for an option that's shut down on a successful save.

MerlinCross |

That and price-wise poisons don't tend to be cheap per-dose. So it's a lot of investment for an option that's shut down on a successful save.
Hypothetically an easier idea to save on gold is to pick up some Handle Animal skill ranks, and grab a animal or two so you can see about milking their venom for use. This isn't as good as some of the more expensive poisons but it's still a way around it at least at first.
Heck, Ranger/Class with Animal companion can probably pick one up.
But yes the DC's have always been a problem.

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Poison are a terrible choice for PCs for so many reasons (high price for consumables, static DCs, so many monsters are immune, most of their effects are negligible, etc). but if you really want to make a poisoner, here's a few options that make it less horrible:
calistrian kiss- elven curve blade that effects those hit with a debuff vs poison
the pernicious poison spell (druid/wizard/witch 2)
Eldritch poisoner alchemist archetype: a class with built in poisons per day with DC scaling by level
daggermark lore feat: makes one chosen poison a little better
toxic weapon enchant: increase dc of poison on the weapon
the daggermark poisoner prestige class