RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4
|
I believe this is coming out today so wanted to start the discussion thread in case anyone was running it tonight or tomorrow and had questions. I'll do my best to answer if I can.
I wanted to also call out particularly the 150 minute cutoff time for the first half of the adventure under The Investigation -> Timing. This is really important to be mindful of to prevent the adventure from going long. There's a lot to explore in Dis and it's easy to lose track of time. The cut-off is there to make sure there's plenty of time for the exploration of Area G and the discussion afterward.
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland—Hagerstown
|
Big question. I know what it was long ago, but what is Zarta's current alignment?I would consider her Lawful Neutral during this adventure for any mechanical or RP purposes.
Couldn't really find anything recent stating her "current" alignment, and it is going back a while, but per the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, she is Lawful evil...so yeah perfect fit for Hell.
And this is what I am going to run with. After a read through, this would not really change things either way.
Awesome scenario by the way Matt. Looking forward to running it.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
|
I also remembered the Field Guide being LE, but a LOT has happened to her since then so I thought she might have shifted a bit. Glad to know I was right.
Since the planar aligned traits affect everyone, it was important to know. Though with the simplified stat block, maybe not. I didn't dig into details of that yet.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4
|
Thanks! I hope everyone has a great time :-)
While I don't know if there's an official alignment change, my understanding is Zarta's in a transitional moment both in what she's doing and in her outlook. Her discomfort in Hell is at least partially because her experiences with the Pathfinder Society have nudged her moral compass a bit. Her thematic journey through the adventure is seeing her past from a new perspective and looking out at the crossroads in front of her. For me this culminates in her finding the resolve to face down and defy Gorthoklek in G4 to lead and protect the team.
This is why in my mind there's a decision point at the end. That she's concerned about the safety of the Pathfinders if she chooses to oppose Thrune indicates some selflessness in her thinking.
Regardless, it's a big character moment for Zarta, and I'm grateful for having had the chance to work on it :-)
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4
|
I also remembered the Field Guide being LE, but a LOT has happened to her since then so I thought she might have shifted a bit. Glad to know I was right.
Since the planar aligned traits affect everyone, it was important to know. Though with the simplified stat block, maybe not. I didn't dig into details of that yet.
Yea, I would say just use the simplified stat block and assume any effects are worked into that, either already baked in to the numbers or negated by preparations she's made.
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland—Hagerstown
|
In G4, when the PC's come across the pit fiend/haunt. Does the damage they inflict have to be positive energy damage or can it be any type of damage. If they can attack it normally, do we act as it is incorporeal or a ghost?
I am seeing immune to fire, which leads that energy could come into play.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4
|
Re: the haunt in G4
This got tweaked slightly in development so just my opinion, but my understanding is that you can target the pit fiend as if it were a pit fiend, and attacking it and damaging it is mechanically how you're overcoming the fear its presence brings. So you can throw lightning bolts or shoot it with arrows and, while you're not hitting anything physical, your courage in performing the action is what's damaging the haunt.
I mean RP-wise, the PCs are seeing a CR 20 creature arrive and start attacking them, so terror seems like a perfectly valid reaction :)
|
DO NOT run this cold. Plan to do A LOT of prep. There are a ton of names to keep track of. As players we were all furiously scribbling notes as the story unfolded and were having a hard time keeping up with all the names and relationships. The GM is a local five star “rock star” so I do not believe it was lack of preparation, it just seems to be a very in depth story. I plan to leave a review, but want to read the materials first. We “fast-tracked” some of the content and still ran 4-1/2+ hours. There seems to be a lot of variant rules or things that didn’t work normally. While some of that is expected, you are in hell after all, it seemed excessive. Overall I enjoyed the game, but there were multiple times when I was frustrated and I’m normally a laid-back player.
|
|
I have one player (for my session Tuesday December 11th) that specializes in raising undead. (for reference he's an L9 cleric and we're playing high subtier (10-11)
Is there any guidance on how the destroyed devils the party will inevitably create (areas F, A and G+), could (if at all) be statted out as Undead?
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I have one player (for my session Tuesday December 11th) that specializes in raising undead. (for reference he's an L9 cleric and we're playing high subtier (10-11)
Is there any guidance on how the destroyed devils the party will inevitably create (areas F, A and G+), could (if at all) be statted out as Undead?
Generally, that onus is on the player — especially in a higher-tier game where the expectation is that players understand and manage their PC's abilities efficiently. As a GM, prepare to hand over the creature's HD, strength, size, and dex. I think that's all the player needs; they should be able to do the rest themselves.
I would also try to be ready to adjudiate these minions by reviewing a guide, like Brewer's Guide to Undeath, which contains a step-by-step example of raising an enemy. There are also the skeleton templates for review.
----
Finally, consider whether such actions count as "otherwise drawing Dispater’s Attention" as noted on page 7.
|
|
Is there a recommendation on where Leventi would attempt to Plane Shift PCs? This spell is basically 72-prestige save-or-die if Leventi chooses. For example, he could choose the Positive Energy Plane or the center of the sun on the material plane. Personally I don't think that's a fun way to run it, though.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hmm... well Leventi likes putting people into situations where he can negotiate from a position of strength, so he'd probably try to strand them somewhere where he can find them later and make a bargain to get them home. Somewhere desolate on the material plane perhaps. Maybe a tiny air pocket in the Diaspora? ;) I'm not sure Plane Shift is accurate enough for that, but I'd be thinking on those lines.
Organized Play Lead Developer
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In the first section of "Key NPCs" with Vetrivides, it uses the words they, their, and them. Is Vetrivides a two-headed bone devil? Two seperate bone devils? Kinda confused here.
Vetrivides is agender and prefers they/them pronouns. This detail appears in their bold-format reference at the top right of page 15.
|
|
In the first section of "Key NPCs" with Vetrivides, it uses the words they, their, and them. Is Vetrivides a two-headed bone devil? Two seperate bone devils? Kinda confused here.Vetrivides is agender and prefers they/them pronouns. This detail appears in their bold-format reference at the top right of page 15.
Thank you.
|
Organized Play Lead Developer
|
The scenario presents an opportunity to not work with Vetrivides directly, eventually opening up the opportunity to work through a different patron—largely because of the concern about paladins fretting about working with a devil. If a paladin player's especially worried, you as the GM can always say, "Well, I can understand why you're concerned about dealing with a devil. Fortunately, Dis is a big place, and Zarta pointed out that you're not obliged to work with Vetrivides directly. Perhaps if you start gathering some clues, you might find a less sketchy patron. I can assure you you're not in immediate danger of failing your paladin code. Sound good?"
Steven's guidance above is also pretty in-line with what I'd say.
|
I played it with my (Iroran) Paladin. Following a LN diety I play him as a LITTLE less bound by some of the strictures than other paladins, especially the Good based ones (to the extent possible, he is more Lawful than Good).
I had no problem allying with a devil in order to defeat a greater threat. I'd have had a greater problem with going against what I perceived as the deal that the Society had made. Due to various factors, the players never really realized that we had an alternate possible patron.
Note - this went QUITE long when I played it. Which was a major contributory factor in our not even realizing all of our options.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4
|
Yea, it's very easy to get caught up in the investigation half and lose track of time. You definitely need to keep prompting the PCs to move, and if they opt to do the optional combat in Widow's Cry, it can very much limit their time if the don't win quickly. Zarta is a great resource in this regard to advise the Pathfinders about their time constraints and remind them of their options so they don't waste too much time deliberating.
I do hope everyone is having fun though and I'm very anxious and eager to hear what decision Zarta is encouraged to make. :-)
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
We had a 5-hour slot for this on high tier and a couple hyper-optimized faces who murdered the investigation portion. We still ran out of time.
I made handouts for all the main clues/NPCs (they're on pfsprep); this saved precious time and was appreciated by players. The table was able to navigate the somewhat byzantine story, only missing the Aspis agent's clue because they simply didn't want to interact with him.
Nevertheless, we had to rush through Leventi's sanctum and call the last fight; players ended up outright attacking him instead of listening to alternative options.
As a GM I was super bummed out when I saw we'd be running out of time, as I absolutely love this scenario's vibe and think it could be a truly memorable experience if given the time it deserves.
Definitely try to run this one over two 4-hour slots, especially if your group enjoys intrigue or flavorful settings.
On a positive note, I'm super happy that one of my players actually made a dark bargain >:)
|
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
|
I'm looking at the spell Planar Adaptation. The rules for Planar Traits don't specify which count as 'environmental effects'. Would you say that Planar Adaptation includes the Alignment Traits and thus prevents the penalty on skill checks?
Talisman of Reprieve is a better spell for that though. But doesn't last long for what we're doing.
BTW, this would be an awesome time for someone with the Faithful Wanderer paladin archetype - especially if they're level 11.
Or get a weapon with the Unaligned enchantment.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4
|
Unfortunately I'm not sure about planar adaptation either. My read of it is that it helps with the physical, elemental, and energy traits. I'd like to think planar alignment traits are common enough they would have called them out in the spell description if they intended it to help, but can't be sure. talisman of reprieve is also a higher level cleric spell and mostly only helps with that one thing. I spent a while searching the forums but can't find a better answer for you. Sorry :(
Great suggestions for alternatives though! That paladin archetype feels like a new PC I need to build now :)
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
|
Yeah I don't think planar adaptation does it. It was rather painful when we played this, because the Wisdom penalty also results in a -2 or -4 Will save for the whole party. We made it through though, I assume the effect of the planar traits was taken into account when setting difficulties.
By the by, my Asmodean Advocate appreciated all the possibilities to use Profession (Barrister). At which he's obscenely good of course.
For the future, a mithral +1 Unaligned cestus looks like a good idea, at only 8505gp.
|
|
Question that I hope someone can help with. PbP game, btw.
Vetrivides specifically gives the PCs a list of suspect contracts, but in the description earlier about looking at contracts it says they can only ask for specific contracts and then lists the Hellknight and Gellius Thrune. Otherwise they have to look randomly. So I guess I'm confused about how to proceed as they are in the Fastness and want to look at contracts but don't know about the Hellknight yet. They could come around to ask for Thrune's, but text implies they have other names. Just wondering if others ran into this.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4
|
"Unless the PCs request or seek out specific contracts, they only secure a random assortment of Leventi’s work."
I can understand the confusion, but they absolutely can gain access to copies of other contracts Leventi has created. They just only gain access to the Hellknight contract or Gellius' contract if they specifically ask or look for it.
So if they want to look for sloppiness in his other work, they can do so by persuading Phlagantres or with Stealth of Sleight of Hand as discussed in the section above and then examine the documents with Linguistics or Profession (barrister or merchant) to earn an evidence point. They separately can get an additional evidence point for successfully locating the Hellknight contract if they've learned about it.
Please don't hesitate to ask if there's any other issue. I'll try to help as best I can. :-)
Have fun!
|
|
Question about the interaction with Vetrivides in G1. The Entrance Hall of Leventi's Scriptorium (it's a little time sensitive as I'm running this tonight starting at 6 pm).
It looks like there will only be fight with Vetrivides under two conditions:
1) Upon entering the Scriptorium if the players chose to attack him as it doesn't look like Vetrivides initiates combat even if the PCs refuse to work with him
2) On the way out if the PCs agree to do so as part of a bargain with Leventi after encountering, but not fighting him, in G5
Is my understand correct?
|
|
Hope the session went well!(it's a little time sensitive as I'm running this tonight starting at 6 pm).
Thanks for the timely information, and also thanks for a very neat scenario. The session did go well. It was a five-player high tier table:
11th level zen archer (did the dominating zen archer thing until the very last encounter (heh-heh))
10th level mystic theurge (cleric of Dispater and very excited to be visiting his equivalent of the Vatican, was very useful for social skills and knowledges as well as utility casting)
10th level admixture wizard (make things go boom with electricity which devils don't like, also very good knowledge (planes))
10th level vexing dodger (more-or-less the party tank)
8th level Razmiran priest (reasonable utility but also a little out of his depth, almost one-shotted by Leventi's delayed blast fireball)
We finished in 4.5 hours, which I credit to:
1) Pre-game prep online selecting characters, tier, etc.
2) Very good players who knew their PCs and kept focused
3) A fair bit of prep by me including individual index cards with the name and a brief description of all the major NPCs (a total of 20 such cards)
The "pit fiend" haunt freaked everyone out and it's phantasmal killer did kill one PCs. However, one of the other PCs had a dose of cardio amp from Iron Gods. Because I am a bad human and evil GM, I very much enjoyed shutting down the zen archer with the deflect arrows scrolls in the final room.
All in all, it went very well, and the players seemed to enjoy the scenario. I like the general idea and many of the specific features but still think it could have been streamlined a bit. It's not that any individual bit is bad but there are so many of them. I'd guess I spent 12+ hours prepping for this. I'm probably going to run it a second time at a local game store so I'll get a little more "bang for buck" prepwise.