#10-08: What Prestige is Worth


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4/5 **** RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4

I'm very glad to hear fun was had and really appreciate the feedback. :)

I actually had more locations originally but trimmed it to this. My hope was to let people investigate in a manner that matched their playstyle. There's a lot more evidence than the pcs need so they don't have to hit every option and can see the parts of Dis that catch their fancy. :) That combination doesn't seem to have gone over well with everyone so it's great to hear there are people enjoying it and to get detailed feedback so I can try to improve. Thank you!

Grand Lodge 1/5

If you're looking for feedback:
1. PFS: played it two weeks ago under a five star GM. Our group (low tier) went pretty much everywhere, talked to pretty much everyone and skated on the encounter at area A, as two of the three attackers were already free; the judge just commented about a potential attack, but wasn't going to run it with just Teena. We killed Leventi and no Dark Bargains were made. I belive that our judge forgot about the cummulative -1's for getting Leventi's ink on you going through portals... Two pp for everyone and we talked Zarta into giving up on Thrune; wasn't she a better person now?

2. PFS: just judged it today with a problem party. Problem, in that two of the players were known to me as the kind that make poor decisions and talk themselves into trouble. (Tholvinus almost abandoned them several times.) We went overtime in a convention slot as I asked if we could go long if necessary and then gave them extra time in the investigation phase (sorely needed). Despite the extra time, not all souls were saved. Game time despite GM cramming a few sections: 5.5 hours. (I _cannot_ recommend this adventure for anything less than five hours.)

High tier, with Leventi ending up dead. He tried to Dismiss the melee Assimar, who saved vs return to the Grand Lodge.

A Diabolist (?) who had already sold his soul made a Dark Bargain and sold his Emotions to Arenthea; no attempt was made to find another form of payment.

3. I see several mentions of body retrieval for 5pp above, for someone who got Plane Shifted. But also one that it would be 72 pp!!?? Neither number sounds right to me; isn't 5pp the price for retrieving your body from somewhere on the map? or maybe the Hao Jin Tapestry? getting a body (living or dead) back from an outer plane should be a much bigger deal... please advise.

4/5 **** RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4

Thanks for the session recaps! Hope fun was had :)

I would definitely discourage ignoring the investigating time limit if you want to play in a timely manner.

Do you have any thoughts about what could have been done differently to address this time concern or was this a group issue based on the "problem players"? Were there any other parts you felt slowed things down too much or detracted from the adventure?

As far as I know getting the body is always 5pp regardless. Getting the body back into usable condition is where they get you. ;)

2/5

A few other comments on how we finished in 4.5 hours.

One, I didn't let on that they could fight multiple battles at Widow's Cry in order to earn additional prizes. They got Tholvinus and that was that, and the zen archer/admixture wizard combo ended this fight in two rounds.

Two, I called the Soul Hunters' fight after one round. The PCs convinced Teena to leave, and the erinyes joined the PCs. It was obvious that the two remaining NPCs were going to get quickly stomped.

Three, after the players had killed Leventi, I gave them what was in G2 and G3. Since they had information on the layout of the Scriptorium, I didn't see any need to actually play through these two rooms.

Also, one of my players did make a Dark Bargain with Jarluxis, selling his emotions, which he bought back at the end of the scenario.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

I wouldn't hand-wave G3. A room full of poison gas that you effectively teleport into is no joke. When I played our party did it after Leventi, and had a hard time handling it.

4/5 *****

"Vernon Caldwell wrote:

3. I see several mentions of body retrieval for 5pp above, for someone who got Plane Shifted. But also one that it would be 72 pp!!?? Neither number sounds right to me;

I brought up the 72-PP Plane Shift not as a recommendation, but as something that an inexperienced or malicious GM is capable of because there are no suggestions in the scenario itself as to how Leventi would use the spell. Matt (the author) responded with an excellent suggestion:

Matthew Duval wrote:

he'd probably try to strand them somewhere where he can find them later and make a bargain to get them home. Somewhere desolate on the material plane perhaps. Maybe a tiny air pocket in the Diaspora?

There's nothing in Body Recovery about location, you can put them wherever you want and on whatever plane you want and body recovery is always 5PP. Fundamentally, what Leventi is doing is analogous to being putting a PC into jail or stranding them on a desert island, hence, 5PP for "having your body recovered by a rescue team."

Overall, I personally believe that where Leventi puts the PC should not matter for anything but GM-added flavor, and possibly the mechanical 5PP body recovery cost.

Grand Lodge 1/5

Matthew Duval wrote:
... Do you have any thoughts about what could have been done differently to address this time concern or was this a group issue based on the "problem players"? Were there any other parts you felt slowed things down too much or detracted from the adventure?

The slow down was largely the players; sometimes you just get a bunch that aren't imaginitive/good problem solvers. Like what I said about the Dark Bargain with Arenthea, the player just paid her price without any attempt to bargain/utilize diplomacy. When I played, we made the Knowledge checks to tell her things and did well enough.

Vis above, the players had two hours to prepare after Zarta's briefing, but they did nothing. They didn't bother to 'Knowledge Planes' to figure out what general devil resistances and immunities were. Neither did they stock up on Oils of Align Weapon (Good) which lengthened several of the fights.

The 'problem' players slowed things down in two ways. First, PP#1 brought in a spirit oni companion that floated about generally 20' over the his bard. PP#1 kept trying to get it to perform combat maneuvers like trip and bullrush, and I had to point out that the creature was tiny, so it couldn't do these things to medium creatures... (You'd think an 11th level bard's player would already know this sort of thing; I also had to correct him on Bardic Performance!) It also had an attack of 1d3 and couldn't get through DR. It was basically useless. (Perhaps it's really only supposed to be an invisible scout and this was just the wrong module for it?)

PP#2 had a guard dog & animal companion she wanted to bring along. I had her make handle animal checks to keep them from bolting back through the portal as soon as they got into Dis. The dog bolted, the companion stayed only to be as useless as the spirit oni.

Note: the Beast Rider also made a handle animal check to keep his combat dinosaur/mount from bolting. It too had to plow through the DR 10/good problem (like his master, no Oil of Align Weapon on it's claws) but did enough damage in combat to more than justify it's presence.

Note: the Diabolist did Commune to Asmodeus to find out about the Scriptorium, so the players skipped G2 & G3 on the way in. I just hand-waved the looting of these areas due to running long. I would suggest just skipping these areas entirely as the loot involved doesn't affect the final battle against Leventi/Vetretides... but passing through the portals involves additional Will 14 saves to not get more ink marks on you for cummulative minus's in the coming combat.

Also, the Diabloist summoned an Eriny to fight one of the [enemy] Erinyes in the Widow's Cry arena. I just had the two cancel each other out to move things along. But when he tried it on Leventi I told him the spell failed due to the Cold Iron hourglass. But I also told the player that it kept Leventi from summoning bearded devils, so it worked both ways. Mathew, was that kosher? It saved time by not putting 2 or 3 more figures into the fight.

4/5 **** RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4

The text says the hourglass limits teleportation, and certainly could be the reason Leventi isn't summoning allies. It's not specifically spelled out, so it's completely up to you. As far as saying they couldn't summon there, that certainly seems plausible given the circumstances. As long as it's within GM discretion under PFS rules, I would defer to the table GM.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/55/5 ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes

I am prepping this for a con this weekend, and as I am doing so, I was wondering if others who have run it have suggestions for running it in a tight 4-4.5 hour slot?

4/5 **** RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4

Here's a few of my suggestions for running it quickly:

-Make sure to follow the timing restrictions for the investigation. Don't let the players keep investigating past the 150 minutes remaining mark.

-Keep track of the players current options for investigating and remind them of their available choices. Use Zarta to offer suggestions to keep them moving if they seem stuck on a choice.

-Don't forget there's a discussion with Zarta at the end that needs a little time.

-The Widow's Cry combat encounter can be time consuming if the group isn't kitted out for damage. Be careful about starting it if you're coming up on the end of the investigation.

-There's much more evidence available than what the PCs need to accomplish their goal. If they're on track for their second prestige point, you could have Zarta encourage them to conclude their investigation rather than doing repeat fights in the arena or something and give yourself extra time for Area G and the conclusion.

I'm sure others have more suggestions and recommendations. :-)

Have a great time this weekend!

1/5

If necessary, have Zarta use a sending and call the players to a fixed location. Then she can say that she has picked up one or two points of evidence (& round the group up to four). Then off to see Rowane!

4/5

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I ran it yesterday with the group finishing in about 4.5 hours running high tier with the four player adjustment. The party included a swashbuckler (10), a telekineticist (10), an orc bloodline sorceror (9), a cleric of Dispater (9), and the L7 pregen warpriest for APL 9.0.

After Action Report:

The party initially hired a guide and headed to the Market of Breaths, and had a rough time with the skill checks. Nobody could make the sense motive checks to lower prices of information so they traded a valuable scroll, and Oloch made a dark bargain and sold his soul here. The end result was they left with Ophelia's contract, but at a significant cost. Meamwhile, Zarta gathered some useful information from Fallen Fastness.
From here, the party sent Zarta to investigate the Ghetto of Outcasts while they fought in Widow's Cry. Between dazing channels and a a well timed casting of black tentacles, they made quick work of the fight and claimed the imp as a reward.
Based on information from Zarta, the party returned to the Ghetto of Outcasts, and here the kiniticist really came into his own. He took some burn in order to be able to lift 9000 pounds, and I ruled that this fell under creative use of abilities to make it significantly easier to free the trapped Hellknights and thus claim Teena's insignia. Moment's later, the 150 minute timer triggered.
The magus put a scare into the party here, as he dropped the swashbuckler from full health to -8 HP by scoring a critical hit with an intensified shocking grasp, and then delivered a vampiric touch on the sorceror using the critical strike arcana. Things could have devolved rapidly from here had the party not made use of the Hellknight insignia and Ophelia's contract to make the other two ambushers stand down. The party succeeded in convincing the erinyes of the validity of their writ, but could not make the linguistics skill check.
The boss fight proved to end fairly rapidly. The party got fireballed once, but the swashbuckler and the warpriest ganged up on the boss, and the sorceror dropped the statue down a create pit spell to put it in "time out." Nobody was interested in taking a wish and letting the boss go.
This party voted unanimously to keep Zarta in the Society.

Silver Crusade

Hello, I want to ask a question about my player. One of my players was psychic caster and he wanted to trade his emotions during scenario. Can he casts psychic spells with emotion component after trading his emotions? I read rules about emotion component but actually did not want to missguide my player about future of his character. Thank you for your answers

http://legacy.aonprd.com/occultAdventures/psychicMagic.html wrote:
Emotion Components: Emotion components represent a particular emotional state required to cast the spell. A psychic spellcaster marshals her desire in order to focus and release the spell's energy. It is impossible to cast a spell with an emotion component while the spellcaster is under the influence of a non-harmless effect with the emotion or fear descriptors. Even if the effect's emotion matches the necessary emotion to cast the psychic spell, the spellcaster is not in control of her own desires and animal impulses, which is a necessary part of providing an emotion component.

2/5 5/5 **

I would say that the 'boon' does nothing more than is written.

So, your Occult casters don't get excessively penalized. It wasn't designed/balanced for loss of spellcasting ability.

I mean, no Morale bonuses is pretty stiff as it is.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Well the "boon" says:

Chronicle sheet wrote:
Emotions (5,000 gp): You no longer feel strong emotions. You cannot benefit from morale bonuses or bardic performances (or similar abilities). You also gain a +3 bonus on saving throws against effects with the emotion descriptor.

Strictly speaking, it doesn't have an emotion descriptor, but then again boons seldomly have any kind of descriptors. I do think this goes against the spirit of "Even if the effect's emotion matches the necessary emotion to cast the psychic spell, the spellcaster is not in control of her own desires and animal impulses, which is a necessary part of providing an emotion component."

I'm conflicted on how it should be ruled. The spirit of the effect says that it should be a big no-no for psychics, but the letter of the law isn't quite there. I'd basically want the player to decide on his own that his character would not want to take the risk. Make the RP choice as if the rules were what they should be.

As-is, if it doesn't block your casting, it's actually potentially pretty good. The only morale bonus that normally does anything for you as a psychic is Heroism, but in return you get a +3 on saves that you really really want to make. And a bunch of money.

Silver Crusade

Thank you for your answers. Actually the boon has similiar conditions with calm emotions spell but anyways RAW > RAI :) Thank you again for your answers.

Chronicle sheet wrote:
Emotions (5,000 gp): You no longer feel strong emotions. You cannot benefit from morale bonuses or bardic performances (or similar abilities). You also gain a +3 bonus on saving throws against effects with the emotion descriptor.
Calm Emotions Spell wrote:

This spell calms agitated creatures. You have no control over the affected creatures, but calm emotions can stop raging creatures from fighting or joyous ones from reveling. Creatures so affected cannot take violent actions (although they can defend themselves) or do anything destructive. Any aggressive action against or damage dealt to a calmed creature immediately breaks the spell on all calmed creatures.

This spell automatically suppresses (but does not dispel) any morale bonuses granted by spells such as bless, good hope, and rage, and also negates a bard's ability to inspire courage or a barbarian's rage ability. It also suppresses any fear effects and removes the confused condition from all targets. While the spell lasts, a suppressed spell, condition, or effect has no effect. When the calm emotions spell ends, the original spell or effect takes hold of the creature again, provided that its duration has not expired in the meantime.

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