Why didn't they change command back?

[Yqatuba]

I always thought the 3.0 version of the spell command (which allowed you to say any one word imperative that the target had to follow if they failed the save) was WAY more interesting than the 3.5 (where they give a short list of commands you can give). Why didn't they change it back?

[LordKailas]

probably because the 3.0 version was weaker or stronger depending on how creative you got with your command.

If for example the command I gave was "undress" this effectively not only occupied my enemy for one round, but was also the same as if I had used a dirty trick combat maneuver on them. Meaning, once the command was finished they then suffered ongoing combat penalties or had to spend yet another round "fixing" themselves, doubling the duration of the spell.

Alternatively, if someone isn't thinking things through they might command someone to perform an action that can be accomplished as a free action. There by rendering the spell useless as the target isn't even inconvenienced.

A static list of commands keeps the spell's effectiveness consistent.

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

"Autodefenestrate"

[shaventalz]

^ Exactly the command I was thinking of.
"Drown" and "skydive" would also be accepted, as well as a variety of things that really shouldn't be done at a public table.

Even if you stuck with the examples written into the spell, "sleep" was in there.

[blahpers]

My guess? Because they agreed with the rationale causing the spell to be changed in the first place.

[Yqatuba]

But it's way more fun the other way. As for it being underpowered if you use the wrong command, couldn't you argue the same about most mind affecting spells? I.E if you dominate someone and just say "stay here and don't do anything" it wont be nearly as effective as if you said "help me fight"

[Kimera757]

I expect rules written for a game to be useful for a game.

Allowing overpowered uses would not make it suitable for a 1st-level spell.

[blahpers]

If it's more fun for you the old way, then by all means play it the old way when you're running the table. Alternately, research a new spell that does what you want, but it should be subject to the usual scrutiny used when deciding what level to make a new spell. As it's quite powerful, I'd make the old command spell at least 4th level, if not higher.

[deuxhero]

3.0 Command for reference, since finding 3.0 SRD text is a bit annoying

Quote:

The character gives the subject a one-word command, which the subject obeys to the best of his or her ability. A very reasonable command causes the subject to suffer a penalty on the saving throw (from –1 to –4, at the DM’s discretion). A command of “Die” causes the subject to fake death. A command of "Suicide" fails because "suicide" is generally used as a noun, not as a command.

One thing about the 3.0 incarnation is that it is very dependent upon what language the players are using. Since 3e and Pathfinder have been translated into several languages this spell could have wildly differing power. The only other examples of something that is [Language-Dependent] for the players are Arcane Mark and Sending (plus its variants). A mark of six characters being a lot in say... Japanese (六字は十分だ is all you need to convey "six characters is plenty", and you could reduce it to just 六字十分 without issue.) or what 50 words is varying from language to language doesn't really impact the game nearly as much as .

Even in English the power of 3.0 Command can drift over time. Note that "kill your superior officer" has become distilled into a single word (frag) within the last 60 years.

[LordKailas]

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

"Autodefenestrate"

This makes me think the intelligence of the creature being commanded should come into effect. If the creature doesn't have a very big vocabulary then they won't understand what's being asked. For once being dumb is helpful.

Though, by the same token madeup words probably work fine so long as the meaning of the madeup word is clear.

[Kimera757]

LordKailas wrote:

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

"Autodefenestrate"

This makes me think the intelligence of the creature being commanded should come into effect. If the creature doesn't have a very big vocabulary then they won't understand what's being asked. For once being dumb is helpful.

Though, by the same token madeup words probably work fine so long as the meaning of the madeup word is clear.

You always explain what the word means first... during the surprise round :)

[pad300]

Yqatuba wrote:

But it's way more fun the other way. As for it being underpowered if you use the wrong command, couldn't you argue the same about most mind affecting spells? I.E if you dominate someone and just say "stay here and don't do anything" it wont be nearly as effective as if you said "help me fight"

They changed it because it was not underpowered, it was MASSIVELY overpowered : Command "Suicide"...

[born_of_fire]

pad300 wrote:

Yqatuba wrote:

But it's way more fun the other way. As for it being underpowered if you use the wrong command, couldn't you argue the same about most mind affecting spells? I.E if you dominate someone and just say "stay here and don't do anything" it wont be nearly as effective as if you said "help me fight"

They changed it because it was not underpowered, it was MASSIVELY overpowered : Command "Suicide"...

This is more a reflection on English speaking peoples’ obsession with making nouns into verbs than it is the relative power of the spell.

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

Indeed. That wouldn't work in Norwegian, for instance.
Still, speaking a strongly agglutinating language would be interesting when combined with Command...

[MageHunter]

Hmm... I'm just seeing the cheesy potential now.

Elfy McElferson: Ah, see aarimor is Elven for drop the sword, undo any possible enchantments you have and close your eyes running backwards.

[Yqatuba]

IIRC The 3.0 version explicitly said using the word "suicide" wouldn't work since it's usually a noun rather than a verb.

[pad300]

born_of_fire wrote:

pad300 wrote:

Yqatuba wrote:

But it's way more fun the other way. As for it being underpowered if you use the wrong command, couldn't you argue the same about most mind affecting spells? I.E if you dominate someone and just say "stay here and don't do anything" it wont be nearly as effective as if you said "help me fight"

They changed it because it was not underpowered, it was MASSIVELY overpowered : Command "Suicide"...

This is more a reflection on English speaking peoples’ obsession with making nouns into verbs than it is the relative power of the spell.

Now you suffer the wrath of the English language, like everyone on Earth has had too since the brits went and established an empire "on which the sun never sets".