Good morning everyone.
I come looking for advice on building a switch hitter alchemist (kinda, because he would be more focused on melee). I am starting a game at level 1, and had initially planned to play a Bloodrager 1/Investigator X (Empiricist) melee monster. But as the group began forming I realized we may have already too much 'melee' characters (at the moment we are Wizard, Cleric, Paladin, Fighter and me).
An archer Bard would probably be the perfect fit here but... I have played one for 5+ years and now would like to change somewhat. Did look at other brutal archers like the Inquisitor but... Truth is I don't think I want to play an archer :P
That being said, and because I have always wanted to try out an Alchemist, I thought about going in that direction - my idea was:
- Still be a melee guy for starters (high STR + Power Attack + 2h weapon);
- Mixing it up with utility bombs without going overboard in the investment
- I expect to end up with a guy who has ranged options, can mix magic and melee (both offensive and defensive), and has that creepy feeling of the Alchemist :D
He would look something like:
Half-Orc
STR 17 (15+2)
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 16
WIS 10
CHA 5
Lvl 1 - Barbarian 1 (Savage Technologist): Seems like an all around good choice for the Str/Dex/AC/Ref/Will bonus?
Lvl 2 - Alchemist 1: I planned on taking Grenadier but I don't think I want to lose Brew Potion - is it worth it?
Lvl 3 - Alchemist 2
Lvl 4 - Alchemist 3: Grabbing that 2d6 to bomb damage
Lvl 5 - Brawler or Free Style Fighter 1: For now I can use Martial Flexibility for Precise Shot if needed? (see Feats below)
Lvl 6 - Alchemist 4
.
.
Etc.
Plan is to continue progressing as Alchemist BUT dipping one level in either Brawler OR Free Style Fighter for the Martial Flexibility (it offers a lot of options if I am playing a switch hitter, right? Apart from all other possible combos here, maybe I don't even grab Rapid Shot and leave it only to take with this when needed? Don't know, seems like a good option)
Feats (really torn on the order for these - he will be mainly a melee combatant, so I guess it makes sense taking Power Attack earlier? But then again he DOES have Rage and Mutagen so... Not sure)
Lvl 1 - Extra Rage
Lvl 3 - Point-Blank Shot
Lvl 5 - Power Attack
Lvl 6 - Precise Shot
Discoveries
Lvl 3 (Alch 2) - Precise Bombs
Lvl 6 (Alch 4) - Tanglefoot or Frost bomb?
There are a lot of moving parts, so any input would be welcome. What do you guys think?
Thanks!
Without significant investment - which you haven't made - potions are a bad idea. Grenadier gives you good stuff, take it. With the free precise bombs you could get both the other bomb discoveries you're looking at.
If you're a switch hitter precise shot isn't important. When your friends are in melee you probably want to be too. I'd consider not taking the second dip and delaying power attack until level 6. Or even delay it further and get master alchemist then - a grenadier has a lot of use for alchemical weapons.
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I have a switch hitter build this way. I went with point blank and precise shot they were super helpful at low levels but I retrained out of them at higher levels.
I would also recommend not dipping anymore than 1 level. I always take frost bombs and eventually force bombs (on its own or retraining frost bombs). I like things like confusion, dispelling and blind bombs. Identify weak save and hit them with a correct bomb.
Full Pouch, master alchemist and hybridization funnel can do a lot to increase your versatility.
There is the breath weapon bomb discovery that is saving throw based rather than attack roll. I thought it might be useful for someone focusing on strength.
I don't know how it measures up in comparison to touch AC attack rolls though.
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There is the breath weapon bomb discovery that is saving throw based rather than attack roll. I thought it might be useful for someone focusing on strength.
I don't know how it measures up in comparison to touch AC attack rolls though.
Probably not great. Some of the archetypal creatures with poor reflex saves (such as dragons, giants, etc) also have poor touch AC.
However, the breath weapon is still worth considering for a switch hitter. The breath weapon discovery explicitly notes that it doesn't provoke AoOs during any of the steps of using it. It also hits multiple enemies for potentially full damage. Which can be nice when you dive directly into the fray.
Well I think breath weapon bomb has a higher minimum damage, so there's that going for it...
Truth be told... I've yet to play a Switch-Hit Alchemist, but I do have experience with Melee Mutagen focused Alchemists and Ranged Bombardment Alchemists.
With my experience from Alchemy, you'll want to grab the Grenadier Archetype for this. Brew Potions isn't good, and if you're PFS, Extra Bombs is only important if you're purely ranged. You won't hit as hard as a pure melee, and you won't hit as hard as a pure ranged, but you'll be able to hit decently however you need.
Strength and Intelligence are the most important stats, followed by Constitution and Dexterity, Wisdom is necessary for saves, and Charisma can be safely dumped. If you want to talk with people, Student of Philosophy should suffice. Your bombs hit Touch AC and have splash damage equal to your Minimum damage even if you miss, so don't be afraid to throw your bombs.
As pointed out above, the Breath Weapon is a good choice to play with as a Switch Hit build due to the ability to switch between melee and ranged bombs. You'll probably still want to focus on your power attacks for damage though.
Gl with your games!
Thank you for all the advices so far guys - I'm getting the feeling the character is quite feasible :D
I was looking at some of the options for a Bloodrager or Barbarian dip, and came across this doubt:
- If I am a Bloodrager
- If I take the Id Rager Archetype (Anger)
- If I take also the Urban Bloodrager Archetype
Do I get +6 to STR when Raging, or do I get +4?
+4 morale (assuming you choose to apply the rage bonus to str) and +2 untyped = +6. And the -2 penalty to dex of course.
Great, thanks for the quick reply avr - I am still mulling this concept over. Hard to decide on what type of switch hitter to build with so many options.