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Been mighty curious about this goddess for a long time.
In her original write-up in Pathfinder #1, she seems made out to be a pretty harsh LN, and the relevant stuff about her that shows up in another book(which is a spoiler) continued to paint her that way.
That's why I raised my eyebrow a bit when I saw her listed as LE in the revised Campaign Setting. It still works with the description, but it got me to wondering...
Is it possible that the current LE tag is a development from what she once was? She was the goddess on whose principles Xin first founded Thassilon, right? The empire whose seven virtues would later be corrupted into the seven sins by the Runelords that overthrew the emperor.
One could argue that the seven virtues and Lissala's ideals were corrupt to begin with, and that the Runelords just stripped away the facade. But what if it was a workable system, albiet a harsh and decidedly non-good one?
Was she intended to be LE from the beginning? Or could Lissala's current state be reflective of the degeneration of her kingdom on Golarion? Is her listing as having active domains indicative that she's alive(if not well) at this point in time? Perhaps she "rebooted" as LE?
On the other hand, having her be LE from the beginning would round out the ophidian alignment box(CE mariliths, CG lillends, LG couatls, and now LE Lissala). Now that could be fun to play with as well...
Even as LE, if she holds true to her write-up in PF #1 she still seems a healthier alternative to Asmodeus. Maybe a patron deity for the forward thinking dark overlord...
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Nope; Lissala has always been, in my mind at least, an evil deity. As far as I know, the Inner Sea World Guide's the only time we've actually nailed down her alignment in print, which in hindsight is pretty strange.
But Thassilon was, if nothing else, an EVIL empire. Ruled by evil wizards. And Lissala was one of that empire's most prominent deities. Thus, she more or less has to be evil. Thassilon's rulers were, for the most part, not overly religious (the one big exception was Alaznist, who worshiped demon lords), so it's not surprising that we haven't bothered to do much with the empire's religion to date, in any case.
Lissala was always intended from the start to be an evil deity, as was Minderhal and the Peacock Spirit. (Although whether or not the Peacock Spirit was actually a deity or not is a secret we haven't yet revealed.)
Sorry, I havent picked up the new Inner Sea Guide so I was just wondering if Lissala is still around? Like can a modern day cleric still take her as a deity?
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Creative Director
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Sorry, I havent picked up the new Inner Sea Guide so I was just wondering if Lissala is still around? Like can a modern day cleric still take her as a deity?
Lissala is in the category of the "Fallen, False, and Forgotten" gods of Golarion. Of those three... the Fallen and False cannot grant spells to clerics. The Forgotten can; and Lissala is categorized as a Forgotten God. So yeah... you could play a cleric of Lissala, and she could have modern day cultists out there, but it'd be unusual. VERY unusual. To the extent that if we did something like this, that character would likely be the entire point of the adventure.
Sorry, I havent picked up the new Inner Sea Guide so I was just wondering if Lissala is still around? Like can a modern day cleric still take her as a deity?
She's forgotten. Not dead, but not a big player. However, some Thassalonian runes still have some link to her and it appears that there are clerics of her again.
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Lissala was always intended from the start to be an evil deity, as was Minderhal and the Peacock Spirit. (Although whether or not the Peacock Spirit was actually a deity or not is a secret we haven't yet revealed.)
Was the Peacock Spirit known and worshipped by another, "real" name in ancient Thassilon?
Thassilon's rulers were, for the most part, not overly religious (the one big exception was Alaznist, who worshiped demon lords)
From his description (Burnt Offerings' section on Thassilon) as "the chief priest of the rune-goddess Lissala," I had always thought of Krune (Runelord of Sloth) as a conjurer/cleric/mystic theurge. This would also help account for why the other runelords left him alone: he could call on divine powers as well as arcane.
Was the Peacock Spirit known and worshipped by another, "real" name in ancient Thassilon?Lissala was always intended from the start to be an evil deity, as was Minderhal and the Peacock Spirit. (Although whether or not the Peacock Spirit was actually a deity or not is a secret we haven't yet revealed.)
I can't see why this would be necessary. IMO, if the Peacock Spirit is actually a "cover" for another deity, they wouldn't need to reveal the truth to their worshipers.
Hmm, actually, I can see several reasons why they wouldn't want the truth to be known. My top suspect would be Asmodeus: it's a subtle way of influencing the leaders of a powerful nation without their knowledge; by playing on their pride, it's a ready-made tool for corruption; it increases his base of worshipers without being obvious about it; after they die, he gets their souls. Definitely win-win for a schemer who would put Niccolo Machiavelli to shame.
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Creative Director
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Thassilon's rulers were, for the most part, not overly religious (the one big exception was Alaznist, who worshiped demon lords)From his description (Burnt Offerings' section on Thassilon) as "the chief priest of the rune-goddess Lissala," I had always thought of Krune (Runelord of Sloth) as a conjurer/cleric/mystic theurge. This would also help account for why the other runelords left him alone: he could call on divine powers as well as arcane.
All seven runelords were single-classed wizard specialists. "Priest" doesn't always mean divine spellcaster in Pathfinder.
And as for the Peacock Spirit... during his/her/its heyday, that's what he/she/it was worshiped as.
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I strongly suspect that "The Peacock Spirit," given that the Harrow card "The Peacock" displays a cockatrice (and cards like that are usually remnants of ancient mystery traditions), is actually some cthonic cockatrice/basilisk spirit once worshiped by the serpentfolk. It's probably older than them too, and just did the old "appear in a form that is pleasing to me" shtick and appeared to the serpentfolk as the cockatrice, whereas later it took up the peacock mask to be worshiped by the barely uplifted apes. It's true form? Something unspeakable and nasty that first fascinates then petrifies those who gaze upon it.
At least this is what the more credible mad wizards and insane theologians believe in my games. Whether this guess is right depends on what James later reveals.
Was the Peacock Spirit known and worshipped by another, "real" name in ancient Thassilon?Lissala was always intended from the start to be an evil deity, as was Minderhal and the Peacock Spirit. (Although whether or not the Peacock Spirit was actually a deity or not is a secret we haven't yet revealed.)
NO! And he wasn't deceiving them, either, back in the day. The name "Melek Taus" is completely irrelevant here.
Go on, nothing to see here... <_<
All seven runelords were single-classed wizard specialists. "Priest" doesn't always mean divine spellcaster in Pathfinder.Thassilon's rulers were, for the most part, not overly religious (the one big exception was Alaznist, who worshiped demon lords)From his description (Burnt Offerings' section on Thassilon) as "the chief priest of the rune-goddess Lissala," I had always thought of Krune (Runelord of Sloth) as a conjurer/cleric/mystic theurge. This would also help account for why the other runelords left him alone: he could call on divine powers as well as arcane.
Thank you for the clarification.
And as for the Peacock Spirit... during his/her/its heyday, that's what he/she/it was worshiped as.
Nicely done. ;-)
Perhaps one day, there will be more information published on the subject. Until then, it's fun to speculate ("Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!").