Are there any time dragons left in the time of Starfinder?

[Yqatuba]

The reason I ask is Great Wyrm time dragons can time travel 3 times in their lives, as far forwards/backwards as they want. If there are still any, why don't they travel back before the Gap to find out what happened?

[BigNorseWolf]

They try it and the magic of 147 gods shoots them back before the gap or causes a timey whimey ball.

[HammerJack]

Who says they would remember what they saw, when they got back, if they cared enough to use their limited ability?

[Xeall]

I imagine they know not to. The book that reveals secrets throughout time, in the armoury F’s you up if you try and look up the gap. Can’t even imagine what happens if you end up there.

Also who says they haven’t and just did not come back.

[Xenocrat]

Why would the time dragons investigate something they caused?

[MER-c]

I like to think the Gap was the result of an adventuring party gone either horribly wrong, or right, depending on your point of view.

[BigNorseWolf]

Dragon starts at 318 after gap

Dragon teleports to -50 after gap

The dragon pops awake at 1 after gap wearing a giant party hat and a saddle being ridden by a family of ysoki, and no memory of the last 50 years.

[Garretmander]

Records exist of before. So they could easily go before or after, it's targeting that during time that they have problems.

[Nathan Monson]

There's at least one time dragon, it gets mentioned in one of the continuing the campaign articles for AtAT

[Claxon]

I mean, if there were ever real time dragons, they could exist at whatever time they choose.

So....they probably tried. And, much like the long lived races who lived before, during, and after the gap the came out with either no memory, or their memories didn't match those around them.

I mean, if being who lived through it magically don't remember, what would make anyone else think they could remember it.

Heck, even the gods don't remember. Or at least aren't telling.

[The Sideromancer]

Also, would a Time dragon be aware of how many shifts they have left? If they don't, they might not be willing to sit through whatever moved Golarion all over again.

[Metaphysician]

Don't forget that jumping into the Gap means jumping into complete chrono incognito. Even if you avoid landing at Golarion itself, given the scope of the Gap? Its entirely possible that there is no "minimum safe distance". You might land smack dab into reality itself dissolving, and while the universe clearly got saved/reassembled, are you going to bet on being one of the lucky ones?

Basically, I can't see any but the most insane dragon thinking that time travel into the Gap would be a good idea.

[Owen K. C. Stephens]

Records of before the Gap exist. It's during the zGap that things are a blank, or garbled mess.

Since no other method of learning what happened then works, why would a time dragon think traveling into that time would work? Even if they knew what was going on while they were there, any effort to have that information leave the latest time of the gap is likely to suffer the same fate as every record that was originally present in that time.

The power of the Gap clear affects even current divinations, or someone would just use a form of retrocognition to find out what happened.

[TheLoneCleric]

So it's like a record needle skipping at the same place over and over again. The Gap made a time 'groove' so deep that any time travel attempts just jump over it.

[BigNorseWolf]

TheLoneCleric wrote:

So it's like a record needle skipping at the same place over and over again. The Gap made a time 'groove' so deep that any time travel attempts just jump over it.

Quote:

Even if they knew what was going on while they were there, any effort to have that information leave the latest time of the gap is likely to suffer the same fate as every record that was originally present in that time.

So the time dragon CAN get in there. Its just that knowing the gap is going to happen doesn't help you get information out of the gap.

Your memory is wiped

The journal you made is gobbleygook

The stone temple you constructed with "remember the gap" bas reliefs has been altered.

The monoliths you set up to register star positions/dates have been messed with. so one of them tells you it's been 48 years and one of them tells you its been 52

[Pantshandshake]

Sounds like a time dragon would have to go all Memento on it, and tattoo all the information directly on itself.

[Azalah]

Pantshandshake wrote:

Sounds like a time dragon would have to go all Memento on it, and tattoo all the information directly on itself.

You ever see tattoos on scales? I haven't, and I don't even want to think of the nightmare that would be finding a tattoo device good enough to tattoo DRAGON scales.

[Pantshandshake]

Backwards on the tongue, then, so you can read your own tattoos in the mirror.

[BigNorseWolf]

Your tongue tattoo now reads "insert cake here"

[Pantshandshake]

Hey, that's a fine, fine tattoo.

[Azalah]

Nobody tell the dragon to look between his hind legs. Ouch...

[BigNorseWolf]

Dragon appears next to one younger and 2 older versions of himself

Oldest version "3..2..1. Here we are. Help Hold this duct tape." ziiIIiip "Ravagogs making a push and we're trying to keep him in. Also I know you're not going to listen to me but I have to try, NEVER play poker with a Ysoki that can hold 19 decks of cards in their cheekpouches. "

[Rahod]

Well as we deal with it in our gaming group the gap has no time so time within the gap is non-existent which has the side effect messing with people heads as time is needed in a 3D space. So if a time dragon attempted to enter into the gap they would find it impossible as their powers do not exist in that time.

[A Mite Excessive]

The Gap is the fallout of the 2e PF Rules destroying the world of Golarion. Finally, everything coalesces into the SF rules, and things are ok again.

[Azalah]

A Mite Excessive wrote:

The Gap is the fallout of the 2e PF Rules destroying the world of Golarion. Finally, everything coalesces into the SF rules, and things are ok again.

So, a period of time where even the gods want to forget it existed? I'm ok with this.

[Kadasbrass Loreweaver]

Its possible Time Dragons know what happened in the Gap but are unable or unwilling to talk about it.

I'm convinced that the Gap was caused by Rovagug getting out, and some safety left on his lockbox activated splitting time and space into countless realities that gave the Gods a chance to save the universe while also splitting Rovagug's power into each parallel universe for them to battle a weaker version. The universe was saved because while Rovagug might have destroyed each planet he encounter, countless realities ensured but each world got spared at least once in each reality from that version of Rovagug choosing a different path of destruction. When Rovagug was finally defeated in each reality, the Gods went to merge them all back together but due to all the Ret-Con issues they had to purge several thousand years of history to make it work. (Bunch of inconsistencies from merging different versions of the same people and places back together some of which are different in different realities or missing entirely.

Golarion is still missing cause it being at the epicenter of Rovagug's break out, the gods are still trying to piece it back together from all the broken, phased out realities. They got all the pieces to make a whole Golarion from Rovagug breaking out different places but its alot harder trying to get none matching parts of a planet back together then it was replacing a whole missing world.

Truth be told we could still be in a Gap just not the first one so we're missing the first Gap but when Golarion comes back the Whole Gap will end and no one will have any idea what happened now.

The tides come and go but the Time Dragons paddle on as if nothing happened. That's awfully suspicious to me.

[Metaphysician]

True, we "know" that the gods ( or at least the highest ones ) seem to know what happened in the Gap. That could mean that others also know, but won't say. Obviously, the logistics of this silence being practical put certain upper limits on how many parties are aware. . . but note, its only been 300 years since the Gap ended. That is not, on a cosmic scale, a particularly long time to maintain a secret.

[Sauce987654321]

I don't know about everyone else, but I thought this was just a nice and neat way of the devs saying "we don't want to do golarion stuff!"

[MER-c]

Sauce987654321 wrote:

I don't know about everyone else, but I thought this was just a nice and neat way of the devs saying "we don't want to do golarion stuff!"

This. ^

[Metaphysician]

Its more complex than just that. If they included Golarion in the setting, it would logically dominate the setting, even if all Starfinder supplements focused on places elsewhere. By the Starfinder era, Golarion either is going to be Coruscant or its going to be a crater, and if its Coruscant its going to make everything revolve around it. The Gap is a way to avoid that, without having to literally and explicitly blow the place up.

[Pantshandshake]

But literally and explicitly blowing places up is the best part of Starfinder.

[FirstChAoS]

What if the magical and nonhuman creatures died and the continents rearranged themselves fighting Rovagug. In desperation the gods placed Golarion in an anti magic zone strong enough to render Rovagug harmless. Forgetting history due to the gap, the residents now call the rearranged Golarion by a new name, Earth.

[BigNorseWolf]

FirstChAoS wrote:

What if the magical and nonhuman creatures died and the continents rearranged themselves fighting Rovagug. In desperation the gods placed Golarion in an anti magic zone strong enough to render Rovagug harmless. Forgetting history due to the gap, the residents now call the rearranged Golarion by a new name, Earth.

Earth exists in the golarion universe... somewhere

[Arutema]

Pantshandshake wrote:

Sounds like a time dragon would have to go all Memento on it, and tattoo all the information directly on itself.

"Check it out, I got this cool tattoo that says something different every time you read it. Can't remember a thing about where or how I got it, though."

[Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Today]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

They try it and the magic of 147 gods shoots them back before the gap or causes a timey whimey ball.

[b]Whoo hoo! Party!! Now it's my turn to shine!!!

Sprays thread with boxed wine.

[NorthernDruid]

So, what happens if you travel back to the gap, learn everything...

and then you travel further back to before the gap?

[BigNorseWolf]

NorthernDruid wrote:

So, what happens if you travel back to the gap, learn everything...

and then you travel further back to before the gap?

I'd imagine its double ended

[Metaphysician]

I suspect there is a species of Aeon, possibly with a divine level lord ruling them, whose whole purpose is to prevent excessive abusive of the timestream.

[The Sideromancer]

you mean like this one?

[BigNorseWolf]

People seem to forget you're not trying to sneak something past a contract or a badly worded wish spell you're trying to sneak something past hundreds of deities, who can react to what you're trying to do to do the thing they don't want you doing.

[RainOfSteel]

I believe the entire Gap is time locked and also inaccessible by any other means. All attempts to travel into it fail: artifacts, dragons, aeons, inevitables, time-beings, gods, no one can get there, at least until the GM is ready for it to happen.

Either the gods know what happened and aren't telling or they don't know.

If they know, then I think that a) not telling is related to any revalation making matters worse, or b) they have told, but nobody can understand because it's information from inside the Gap, which the universe appears to be actively obscuring for most beings.

If they don't know, I think not telling is related to avoiding embarrassment over not knowing.

[David knott 242]

Anything that prevents traveling into the Gap would be a safety measure, as the primary purpose of the Gap seems to be to prevent information from leaving it and reaching the post-Gap era.

I wouldn't see a problem with having an NPC use time travel to enter the Gap -- and then said NPC is never heard from again.

[Duiker]

There will be but there wasn't.