The useless kineticist? PFS Gimp.

[maouse33]

Ok. I understand that it is a class that can work well. What I am looking at is the elemental overflow numbers.

Burn: take character level x2 temporary HP (thp) per turn you have burn. Ok. Doesn't seem that bad. Most kineticist players will max con, and put favored class HP here.

But it does mean you'd never want to multiclass. Like, ever.

On to level 3, where things start to really go down hill. You need 1 burn, at level 3 (6 thp per turn). You get a +1 to hit and 2 damage, you have 36 HP. Meaning you can keep this "bonus" up for 6 turns. Fair enough.

At level 6, this all starts to break down. If you have 3 points of burn, you are taking 36 thp per turn. You only have 69+6(from the bonus this gives), or just over two turns worth before you start killing yourself with burn.

But at level 11, if you have 5 burn, that's 110 thp a turn. You have 124 from leveling and 22 more from this ability. So you knock yourself out in the second round (220 thp, meaning no and doing yourself 220-146=74 HP).

The level 16 is right out, delivering 32x7 or 224 thp to a character who only has 179 +48(from the ability). Leaving yourself 3 thp. Of course you probably took burn getting to 7 total? A second turn will probably completely kill you (if you take away the 48 HP boost and then apply the remaining thp to HP conversion (217 real HP).

Does anyone else find this completely broken? Or is it just me? Am I missing something? Burn does 2 tHP per character level per burn per round, right? Because PFS uses average HP progression this makes every high level high burn kineticist a useless suicide king our queen.

[Meirril]

It says as long as you have burn, not that you need to take burn to get the Elemental Overflow bonus. At 3rd level as long as you've accepted 1 point of burn you get +1 to hit and +2 to damage until you get rid of the burn (i.e. sleep). From 6th-8th you can get +2 to hit and +4 damage once you take 2 burn for the day.

It doesn't matter when you burn. You can wake up and immediately burn to get your full bonus, or you can do it during combat. Burning more won't give you more of a bonus since you are limited to your class level divided by three.

And yeah, Kinetisist is an awful class to dip into or away from.

[Firebug]

I think you misunderstand the basics of burn. It isn't temporary damage every turn, its just once. So 5 burn at level 5 would be 25 nonlethal damage that you can't heal up.

[doomman47]

Don't get me wrong kinetisist is pretty bad as written but its not THAT bad.

[Egil Firehair]

Kineticists specialize in in blasting things. The blast is a spell-like ability that increases with every two levels. So yes, multi-classing is a bad idea... just like multi-classing wizards or any other 9th level casting class is. (Note that the Kinetic Blade & Whip are still blasts, but they've been altered into a different format suitable to melee rather than ranged attacks.)

Quote:

Burn: take character level x2 temporary HP

This is wrong, it's only one point per level. As previously stated, the Elemental Overflow occurs once you have Burn, regardless of whether it was taken this round or an hour ago.

Burn management is a feature of the class, like Ki/Grit/Panache. You use less Burn if you Gather Energy, and Infusion Specialization reduces the Burn cost of Infusions by increasing amounts as you level up. This is an eminently playable (but complicated) class; you just have to figure out the mechanics first.

Generally speaking, you use Burn to produce surges of firepower in a pinch.

[maouse33]

I completely misunderstand Burn. First, yes, it is one THP per character level per point of burn. No idea where I got the 2 THP idea from other than reading the 2 in the section above it or something, sorry. Second: I do a blast for 1 burn 3 times - 1st one is 1 burn. 1THP / lvl. Second is 1 burn, total of 2. 2 THP / lvl. Third is 1 burn, total 3, 3 THP / lvl. Then I do something for 4 burn to hit 7 total burn. I take 7THP / lvl (total, not each round I expend more burn, as I thought above). But my burn total is now 7 and I get all the benefits of elemental overflow. I can now blast all my bolts out at zero burn (modified by other abilities) with a (let's say they are 16th level) +6, +4, +2 physical attribute (Con first I'd guess), 35% ignore crits, +5 to hit with kinetic blasts, and +10 to damage with kinetic blasts. I took 7x16, or 112 THP. I'd have 217 HP until I rested. Then the burn THP and my bonus 48 HP from the +6 Con would go away.

So the limit would be another 105hp / 16 = 6 more burn (13 total).

And the only real downside to all of this is if I get mashed in the head by someone who can deal out 105 HP of damage (because 105 real HP worth of damage would mean I only have 112 thp, night night time... though I'd still be 112 points (+Con) from actually dieing).

OK. I think I get it now. Thanks for helping me understand how this is even remotely viable.

[Melkiador]

You can often avoid the burn cost for blasts through other class abilities. It’s the non-blast uses of burn that tend to pile up, though this can vary by your build and style.

[Egil Firehair]

You do not get to use unlimited amounts of Burn. You get 3 + Con modifier points of Burn, and cannot voluntarily exceed that limit*. As you specify a +6 Con in your last post, that's 3+(+6) = 9 Burn maximum.

* There are circumstance(s?) where someone else can force Burn on you, which can push you over the limit. Kinetic Healing is the only one I can come up with off the top of my head.

[blahpers]

Getting Con-drained/-penalized could do it.

[ErichAD]

getting interrupted while gathering power can force more burn as well.