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Waveblade is listed in the fighters closed weapon group and NOT in the monk weapon group. In the special qualities of the weapon it is listed as a Monk weapons.
Fighter Weapon Groups.
Is this intentional or should it also have been listed in the monk weapon group?
Intentional. The "monk" fighter group and the "monk" property are different. The Urumi, for example, is in the monk fighter group but lacks the monk property.
The Waveblade is simply the reverse of the Urumi. Having an 18-20 weapon be in the monk group and have the property would cause it to outshine too many other monk weapons. Not by a lot, but the decision for both weapons to be excluded from the group or the property was likely done to balance their crit potential with certain things like ascetic style and effects that require the monk property.
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Having an 18-20 weapon be in the monk group and have the property would cause it to outshine too many other monk weapons. Not by a lot, but the decision for both weapons to be excluded from the group or the property was likely done to balance their crit potential with certain things like ascetic style and effects that require the monk property.
Actually, as Waveblade is a light weapon, it can't compete with two-handable weapons on unMonk (and it can't even compete with Temple Sword for cMonk due to the extra feet needed).
I'm not saying your theory is necessary wrong, mind - that does sound like Paizo dev reasoning. The numbers don't support the reasoning, though.
Yeah, I was just giving a possible reason. Regardless of what their reasons were they seem to have wanted the waveblade to fill a similar kind of niche as the urumi by giving them seperate groups and properties. I never said if they hadnt then it would be the best monk weapon from a min-max perspective, but they have proven to be hesitant to give monks unrestricted use of 18-20 weapons. So the waveblade being part of the close group and not the monk group makes sense.
A DM could house rule a change to the weapon group if they are asked nicely though.
For the record, I don't remember exactly why the waveblade works that way. This was late 2016, after all... it's been a while. My guess is, I wanted to keep unchained monk from gaining automatic proficiency. ^_^
Waveblade is powerful as a Monk weapon because it's capable of using Agile with great stats. It's a Monk Wakizashi.
For the record, I don't remember exactly why the waveblade works that way. This was late 2016, after all... it's been a while. My guess is, I wanted to keep unchained monk from gaining automatic proficiency. ^_^
It was your decision not to include it in the monk weapons group? Sounds uncharacteristicly prohibitive of you.
UnMonk has automatic proficiency with the waveblade, they just can't use it with Ascetic Style/Form without spending a couple hundred gp on Versatile Design from the same book. cMonk doesn't need Ascetic Style and thus doesn't care about weapon group.
Huh. That does sound a bit unusual, I'll grant.
Like I said, it was a long time ago. And my personal life circumstances at the time were a bit complicated. ^_^
It always bugged me that the urumi didnt have the monk property, so I figured it was pretty damn safe to assume another 18-20 weapon having a similar restriction was also an intentional decision. But if not even Isabelle Lee knows, then nobody knows!
But yes, even if its not able to be min-maxed as effectively as another option, its still pretty powerful and it isnt unreasonable for it to have a tiny restriction that effects a minority of builds.
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For the record, I don't remember exactly why the waveblade works that way. This was late 2016, after all... it's been a while. My guess is, I wanted to keep unchained monk from gaining automatic proficiency. ^_^It was your decision not to include it in the monk weapons group? Sounds uncharacteristicly prohibitive of you.
UnMonk has automatic proficiency with the waveblade, they just can't use it with Ascetic Style/Form without spending a couple hundred gp on Versatile Design from the same book. cMonk doesn't need Ascetic Style and thus doesn't care about weapon group.
That’s why many GM’s and PFS has banned Versatile Design.
Why dont cMonk need Ascetic Style for lets say using waveblade with snake style?
That’s why many GM’s and PFS has banned Versatile Design.
And I agree with them - after all, every class should only have one build. People who want variety are evil devil worshipers! Also known as "Martials can't have nice things."
Why dont cMonk need Ascetic Style for lets say using waveblade with snake style?
They would, but a) that's not something that has anything to do with cMonk, b) you need a way to have two active style feat stances, anyway, and c) who plays cMonk, anyway?
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Hmm to complete the confusion:
Here it is in both the monk group and the closed fighter group.
Waveblade.
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Hmm to complete the confusion:
Here it is in both the monk group and the closed fighter group.
Waveblade.
Most likely an error since Archives has it as just Close and is the official SRD.
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Most likely an error since Archives has it as just Close and is the official SRD.Hmm to complete the confusion:
Here it is in both the monk group and the closed fighter group.
Waveblade.
I checked my copy of AA2, and on page 10 under "Fighter Weapon Groups" it lists only the Sanpkhang in the Monk group, while the Waveblade is listed under Close along with the Dwarven war-shield and the tri-bladed katar.
So it's just an error on D20pfsrd.