Magic staves with potency runes

[Fuzzypaws]

I know a staff is at least an expert weapon, so can accept a potency and a property rune. But do the "plusses" from a magic staff apply to attack rolls with spells cast through the staff? I can't find any text in the rules on the matter.

In the interim I am ruling that they do not, but would like to know if I'm overlooking something. My inclination is that the staff's plus rating would not increase spell save DCs but should apply to melee and ranged attack rolls with spells you cast through it, just as a bow applies its plusses to ammunition fired from it, but I am not going to allow it for playtest purposes unless I can find more specific information.

[ErichAD]

I can't think of any reason why they would. The staff as weapon entry seems separate from the staff's other abilities.

[DM_Blake]

Bonk 'em on the head, apply your potency bonus. Blast 'em with magic, no potency bonus - you already get to hit Touch AC (probably) and use your own Spell Roll on the attack, so adding a potency bonus would just tip the math too far out of balance.

And we know how tight the math around here is. Watertight. Airtight. A quantum singularity from which no numbers or equations can escape the event horizon.

[nick1wasd]

DM_Blake wrote:

you already get to hit Touch AC (probably) and use your own Spell Roll on the attack, so adding a potency bonus would just tip the math too far out of balance.

According to the 1.3 errata FAQ, you use your weapon stat (DEX unless your STR is higher) plus your spell proficiency, not your Spell Roll (That's for like, Black Tentacle's grapple roll and the like). So adding a Staff's item bonus would actually be quite interesting, and make sense.

[Joey Cote]

I would say no as well. If it did, then the expert quality of the staff would already give a +1 on such roles. I would think they would have mentioned such an important effect.

Also, if someone wanted to argue that the bonus to hit for the potency rune would effect such spell attacks, then the extra damage die from the potency rune would also apply, and for certain, that isn't intended. A mage with a big potency rune on a staff would rule combat.

[Lady Melo]

Not saying it does or doesn't work with the staff (though most likely it would not) with spell duel's gloves/wand being an item that grants an item bonus to attack rolls with spells, and being able to use my staff when casting a spell (as if a free hand and such) i really feel like they should give this bonus, just to consolidate my "magical force amplifier slot" in to one thing.

However the concern that it would effect magic damage is in fact no concern whatsoever. As written if you made a special melee attack whose hit entree said "Deal 10 damage of the type your weapon deals" this attack would also not be affected by +X weapons. "The weapon deals an Additional number of weapon dice" is the wording of potency, for this to apply you would need to be rolling your "weapon die/dice" in the first place.

[Tridus]

Lady Melo wrote:

Not saying it does or doesn't work with the staff (though most likely it would not) with spell duel's gloves/wand being an item that grants an item bonus to attack rolls with spells, and being able to use my staff when casting a spell (as if a free hand and such) i really feel like they should give this bonus, just to consolidate my "magical force amplifier slot" in to one thing.

Yes, it would be a lot nicer to not have all these different items doing this. One item for an attack roll bonus on ranged spells, another for melee spells, and staves adding bonuses to some spells when you use them...

Meanwhile, a weapon is getting all of that at once as a single item, and other stuff along with it.

It feels very, very clunky trying to boost spell effectiveness right now. Being able to slap a +2 rune on a staff and have it act that way on any spell you use it to cast would be FAR simpler. If you then do something like Emblazon Holy Symbol on a sword and use that instead, the same thing would carry over, instead of having to juggle all these different items around.

[nick1wasd]

I think having a special type of Rune that you could slap on a staff or wand that boosts spell casting done through it would make staves a much more interesting pick up for caster than just an item that lets you use more spells. That does then pigeon hole caster into NEEDING a wand/staff to actually be good at anything, which is one of the situations they wanted to avoid. Although I would prefer needing an item to be awesome over just being permanently meh in most situations.