I don't know of a way to do what you're asking.
How exactly are you avoiding the -10 penalty for tying up an opponent while you are grappling said opponent?
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@ blahpers
Order of the Penitent to avoid the -10 penalty.
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@ Unit620
Okay, so the only way I can actually see this happening on a charge is through a combo of the following feats and only at the start of combat.
Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit(s): When a flat-footed creature is unaware of your presence and you successfully grapple it, you can attempt a second grapple combat maneuver check to pin the creature as a free action. If you have the Chokehold feat, you can instead use this second combat maneuver check to initiate a chokehold.
Prerequisites: Quick Draw, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: If you have a thrown weapon in hand when you begin charging, you can make a ranged attack with that weapon against the target of your charge at any point during your charge. You gain the +2 bonus for charging on the attack roll for this ranged attack. You can then immediately draw a melee weapon during your charge. You take a –5 penalty on the melee attack made at the end of the charge. When charging this way, you cannot use any effect that would grant you more than one attack at the end of your charge (such as pounce), nor can you use abilities that grant you other ranged attacks on a charge, such as the hurling charge rage power.
+ Proficiency with nets. Can buy that for 1,500 gp.
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So you charge and make a ranged touch attack with a net.
Then you make your grapple at the end of the charge (thanks to constable), with a -1 penalty (-5 penalty, but +4 from Equipment Trick). Don't forget that the opponent has a -4 penalty to their Dex.
Then, if the opponent was flat-footed and unaware of you, you get a free action to pin it (opponent has -8 penalty to dexterity, you have a +4 to the check).
If you successfully pinned it, then you can tie it up as a swift action.
This is however largely circumstantial, but would allow you to charge-tie someone.
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That was Wonderstell, but good luck anyways! : D
(Also, thanks, Wonderstell!)
@wonderstell
My GM says that u can't use the constable ability to maintain or pin and opponent, it's ability is to start a Grapple so he doesn't think the nets and this would work together, and a net gives entangled condition not the grappled condition.
Good thing that it doesn't work that way, then.
If you press on the "show" button in my previous post, it shows you the feats we're using.*****
Flinging Charge allows you to make a ranged attack and a melee attack during a charge.
1. You throw a net at the enemy you're charging. This is a ranged touch attack with a thrown weapon.
The Apprehend ability of the Constable archetype allows you to make a grapple maneuver instead of the melee attack at the end of a charge.
2. You make a grapple check at the end of your charge.
Bushwack allows you to make a grapple check to pin your opponent, if you've grappled someone who is flat-footed and unaware of you.
3. Assuming you fulfill those conditions, you do now make a grapple check to pin your opponent as a free action.
Equipment Trick: Net allows you to make a grapple check to tie someone up as a swift action, if the opponent has been pinned while entangled by a net you control.
4. You now use your swift action to tie up, since the opponent is entangled by your net and you've successfully pinned it.
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@ doomman47
I also considered Maneuver Monk, but that ability only triggers on a full-attack action, while charging is a full-round action.
Is there any reason that Pounce, Greater Grapple and Rapid Grappler wouldn’t work for what you’re trying to do? Pounce gives you Full round after charge, grapple as your standard, Greater grapple allows you to grapple as a move, and rapid grappler lets you get a third grapple as a swift.
@ doomman47
That's why pounce is necessary full round attack on a charge.@ doomman47
I also considered Maneuver Monk, but that ability only triggers on a full-attack action, while charging is a full-round action.
It is still a full-round action, not a full-attack action. Pounce never gives you the ability to make a Full-Attack Action, which is needed for Maneuver Master Monk.
When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack (including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability).
For example, Haste only gives you another attack when you make a Full-Attack Action, and would therefore not give you another attack if you pounce.
This FAQ says that you do get your extra attack from Haste while Pouncing, but that you normally wouldn't as it isn't a full-attack action.
This is an exception to the rule, so Maneuver Master would not trigger on Pounce.
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@ Ryze Kuja
Pounce gives you a full-attack, not a full round worth of actions.
I'm not sure if it would be an option, but the verdant grappler archetype can be stacked with strangler. It lets you tie someone up that you've pinned, so it would do away both equipment trick (net) and hurling charge. But you would still need bushwhack to pin them.
At 2nd level, a verdant grappler gains Improved Grapple as a bonus feat. At 3rd level, she must choose grapple as her first combat maneuver for maneuver training. When she pins a creature, she can cause roots and vines to burst from the ground (no matter the surrounding terrain), allowing the verdant grappler to attempt to tie up the creature without needing to retrieve rope or use a hand to hold the rope; as usual, a tied-up creature is pinned and not helpless. The verdant grappler must remain within 30 feet of the tied-up creature, or the vines automatically release it. She can tie up only one creature at a time with green grasp.
This replaces the bonus feat gained at 2nd level and alters maneuver training.
I don't know... I've always interpreted that ability as only giving you free rope. It makes no mention of a check or what action it would be, so I'm pretty certain it wouldn't give you a free tie-up.
Also, the "clarification" that a tied-up creature isn't helpless just makes Throat Slicer ever more b%!+!*~$.
At 2nd level, a verdant grappler gains Improved Grapple as a bonus feat. At 3rd level, she must choose grapple as her first combat maneuver for maneuver training. When she pins a creature, she can cause roots and vines to burst from the ground (no matter the surrounding terrain), allowing the verdant grappler to attempt to tie up the creature without needing to retrieve rope or use a hand to hold the rope; as usual, a tied-up creature is pinned and not helpless. The verdant grappler must remain within 30 feet of the tied-up creature, or the vines automatically release it. She can tie up only one creature at a time with green grasp.
This replaces the bonus feat gained at 2nd level and alters maneuver training.
I don't know... I've always interpreted that ability as only giving you free rope. It makes no mention of a check or what action it would be, so I'm pretty certain it wouldn't give you a free tie-up.
Also, the "clarification" that a tied-up creature isn't helpless just makes Throat Slicer ever more b!~&$+~@.
It always struck me as a free action since it using the wording "when you pin a creature" instead of "after you pin a creature", making me think its a trigger off of the creature being pinned. I agree however, it doesn't explicitly state if it is a free action or not leaving it to interpretation.
As for the second half, I think the author of the ability wanted the creature to be entangled not tied up, which makes sense for vines. Instead you end up with apparent "reminder text" that conflicts with the actual rule.
You raise a good point. I'm convinced.
Instead of going Verdant Grappler/Strangler, I'd take two levels of Verdant Grappler/Constructed Pugilist.
The Grapnel Arm limb modification allows us to make a ranged touch attack to start a Grapple up to 40ft away as a standard action, which in many cases is better than charging.
This will drag our target towards us, then with Bushwack and Green Grasp results in a tied up opponent directly in front of us.
I had a fairly successful assassin who had two levels of cavalier for the Order of the Land ability, which allows you to treat an enemy as flat-footed against all your attacks with improvised weapons for 1 round.
Combined with Grapnel Arm and a good stealth option, you can trigger Bushwack even if you act last in initiative.
very cool. Bushwhack does have the caveat that your opponent has to be unaware of you for it to work. Makes me think you'd want the feat Go Unnoticed to guarantee that you meet this condition.