Stelliferas, the strongest cuttlefish

[Steven "Troll" O'Neal]

Given how they're written, stellifera (from book 2 of AtAT) have the potential to start with the highest strength score of any race. It's not optimal by any stretch of the imagination, but you could feasibly start at level 1 with a functional strength score of 21.

[Alledisil]

That is how the cuttlefish do.

[Ravingdork]

Unless of course the GM and developers say that the 18 limit at character creation still applies. It is part of their racial traits, just like normal ability score mods after all.

[Steven "Troll" O'Neal]

Ravingdork wrote:

Unless of course the GM and developers say that the 18 limit at character creation still applies. It is part of their racial traits, just like normal ability score mods after all.

Except the hydrobody trait specifically says that your strength is treated as 4 higher. No qualifiers, just 4 higher.

[Xenocrat]

A max strength Stelliferas build would look like this at character creation: S: 16, D: 10, C:8, I: 10, W:12, Ch:12

Then you could adopt your hydrobody for a +4 to strength.

At level 15 you'd hit a 20 natural strength, could take a mk3 enhancement to get to 26, and use your hydrobody to get to 30. So you're always +1 or +2 on modifier compared to other races.

[Damanta]

Or you just use the quick array of 18, 14, 11, 10, 10, 10.
This both negates the -2 on con and gives you 18 Str straight out of the box.

[HammerJack]

Yup, as written, hydro body can be used to be ridiculously strong. Ravingdork is also correct that the GM can refuse to allow it.

Only a very generous GM, or one who wasn't paying attention would allow a stellifera to use a quick array.

[Ravingdork]

I wouldn't get your hopes up guys. Paizo is going to come down on this hard. (And they should.)

I'm certain the intent is that no character should have higher than an 18 at 1st level as a direct result of character creation.

[BigNorseWolf]

You can put all 10 points into something and suck up the -2 to start at 18, quick array or no

[SirShua]

How does the ability actually read? I don't got the AP.

[HammerJack]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

You can put all 10 points into something and suck up the -2 to start at 18, quick array or no

Stellifera have +2 WIS, +2 CHA, -4 STR and -2 CON. They can't start at 18, and letting them use a quick array would give them 4 extra attribute points.

EDIT:
And the strength part of hydrobody is just "while within a hydrobody, a stellifera has a strength score 4 higher"

[Ravingdork]

Some clarifying thoughts from Owen:

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

We don't generally release errata for APs. That said, if we pick this up for an Alien Archive, I expect it would be rewritten to be +2 Wis, +2 Cha, and -2 Con, and a special ability that has it calculate its bulk as if its Strength was 4 lower. That ability does not apply in hydrobody, when it calculates bulk normally.

If you want to play with the current rules, a stelliferas should be limited to a 14 maximum Strength at 1st level.

Original comment can be found here.

[Steven "Troll" O'Neal]

Not going to argue with Owen. In my home game I'll allow it, though I doubt any of my players would attempt such an incredibly lopsided character.

[Perpdepog]

Personally I think you could solve the issue by removing the -4 to strength in the race's ability score adjustments and changing the sentences which refer to "while within a hydrobody" to "while outside of a hydrobody."

Then you would have a sentence that reads something like, "While outside of its hydrobody a stellifera gets a -4 penalty to its strength score, loses 2 hit points, loses its land speed, and has its reach reduced to 0 feet." In essence, treat the creature's base write-up as if it were always in a hydrobody since, from a practical standpoint, it always will be barring extraordinary circumstances.

[UllarWarlord]

Personally? I put a tool arm on my stellifera mechanic's drone for a habitat box, and just use it as a mech while camping out inside.

Who needs a hydrobody when you have a robotbody?

[Torgrin Deepsmith]

I'm more curious about the +2 HP, is that just one time, you use hydroform and you get +2 HP, or is it supposed to be an enhancement like +2 per level, since they are normally a +2 HP race, but most other medium races (hydroform) are +4 minimum.

[thecursor]

*Immediately draws up a Soldier Stellifera named Murderwater Murmaider

[Noven]

Blitz Soldier =)