Rules discussion

[andyrhi]

I have a problem with a few of the PF2 rules.
1) What is the value of a craftsman's skill if an item can be made by providing its full value in material? If the problem is that it is too easy to craft magic items, the solution is to decrease the GP (or SP) value of a craftsman's daily work. In addition, scenarios should be designed such that the PCs don't have weeks to sit around and fabricate magic items.
2) I completely disagree with the use of Perception "Usually" for Initiative. Initiative is one's ability to get one's body to do what needs to be done. Therefore, it should be DEX based, not WIS based. Similarly, while Stealth may get a PC into position to attack and may prevent a foe from reacting to the PC, it does not determine when the PC will attack.
3) In the second installment of the playtest, there comes a point when the PCs need to cross a stream. Apparently, the rules require that a mounted PC must roll Handle Animal and then Command Animal each round. A distinction needs to be made between untamed and trained animals. An animal trained to carry passengers shouldn't need to be commanded every round. I can understand that in a situation like crossing a stream, Handle Animal checks would be needed every round as the PC guides the animal, but once given the command to advance,the animal shouldn't need to be re-commanded, just guided.
4) The Skill Feats and General Feats are way too limited. For instance, there are no Tumbling feats for Acrobatics and no throwing feats for Athletics. I'm not talking about throwing a weapon, but about tossing a grappling hook so that it lands where it is supposed to land and does so silently, of lassoing a tree branch or a post.

[Sanmei Long]

You have to be able to make the roll to craft it; items are gated off by proficiency level; you have to make a crafting check to reverse-engineer an item into a formula if you want to reproduce it; a successful craft check allows you to make it cheaper than you could purchase it.

[thflame]

1) It's a balance issue. People who craft a lot of stuff in PF1 have more loot.

On your number 2, I partially agree.

I like the idea of Initiative being the lesser of DEX and WIS.

You may be fast enough to react, but if you aren't perceptive, you don't know to act.

Likewise, you may see the threat coming, but you still have to get moving.

3) Animal handling rules are asinine. They don't want PCs getting 6 actions a round by using an animal companion for fear of being OP. This results in wild animals being more effective in combat than trained pets.

4) Skills are more general now. We might see such feats in the future, but they would likely be so situational as to not be worth spending feats on.

[Scythia]

Crafting only requires the full value of materials if you want the item as quickly as possible.

If the character is making an item of the same level, it takes four days to get to where you can decide "done!" and just pay the full value in materials to be finished. Every extra day of crafting after that reduces the materials required by the amount listed in the table, to a minimum of half the cost of the item.

Example: Jessa wants to make a new falchion for herself. A falchion has a 30 silver cost. A falchion is a level 1 item, and Jessa is level 1. Jessa needs 15 silver to begin crafting her falchion (1/2 of 30). She spends four downtime days crafting and suceeds at the crafting check. She could, if she were in a hurry, provide another 15 silver in materials to finish the falchion right then. If she is not in a hurry, or doesn't have another 15 silver to spare, she can spend additional downtime days continuing to work on it. Every day that she successfully makes the crafting check will reduce the cost by 1 silver (2 on a critical success), so it might take an extra 15 days of work to get the falchion made for 15 silver, but it's doable.

The numbers get better when making lower level items. If Jessa was level three, and an expert in crafting, it would only take two downtime days to reach the point where she could finish for full price, and she would make 4 silver progress (6 on crit) each day, requiring only 4 extra days of work to finish for half price.