Is this something that PF2e is trying to achieve? I have a suspicion that it is, but I'm afraid I'm not mathematically adept enough to quite work out for sure. The TEML system seems to be suggesting as much, as well as the relative dearth of ways to gain bonuses compared to even just core rulebook 1e. The biggest separator between 5e bound accuracy and 2e as far as I can work out is +level, which means that the accuracy would be bound not in totality but between same level characters.
That's an interesting way to look at it. I haven't found an agreed upon definition of what bounded accuracy actually means though.
If bounded accuracy means that the lowest and highest bonus are not super far apart then yes PF2 is bounded around the idea that the spread from highest to lowest bonus between equally leveled PCs/monsters should end up around 10-15, enough that the die roll still has a chance to make the worse of the two win a straight competitive check. This ends up being pretty similar to 5e for equally leveled characters.
If bounded accuracy means that the game makes no assumptions about what equipment the players have (which is one definition that I have seen) then no PF2 is not bounded they have explicit expectations that you keep getting higher potency runes on weapons and armor and that eventually you get a potent item to get +2 to your primary ability score.
If bounded accuracy means that there are upper bounds to how high you can raise your ability scores than both are bound though 5e takes the approach of saying there is a hard cap of 20 then violating that rule a bunch of times whereas PF2 doesn't say there is a hard cap but only allows enough bonuses such that you can reach an ability score of 24.
If bounded accuracy means that the lowest and highest bonus are not super far apart then yes PF2 is bounded around the idea that the spread from highest to lowest bonus between equally leveled PCs/monsters should end up around 10-15, enough that the die roll still has a chance to make the worse of the two win a straight competitive check. This ends up being pretty similar to 5e for equally leveled characters.
Yes, that is what I meant in this case, thank you. I wasn't even aware of the other definitions, actually.
I personally am not a fan of the idea outside of combat, especially in opposed rolls, as it breaks my suspension of disbelief that there's such a (relatively) large chance of a non-expert beating an expert at a roll. I often see the sentiment expressed that large differences in bonuses "marginalise the dice", but I don't see that as a negative. I like when my character's success or failure is determined by my choices, not the whims of a d20.
In combat its more palatable, as combat by it's very nature is chaotic and unpredictable in a way that non-combat situations aren't.
I think they just really weight experience (level) over training. So the fact that one is a expert and the other has never been trained in a thing doesn't matter all that much because both PCs have such a large breadth of experience by the time they are high level.
Of course that works a lot better in abstract, it's hard to say that 15 lvls of experience has given the untrained character a +12 bonus on climb checks when you have been playing them the whole time and know for a fact they have never climbed a damn wall in their life.
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That does seem to be the goal. Moving slightly away from 5e's problem where you're never really good at anything, to PF2's eventually being good at things you have no training in, is a bit weird. Neither really works well narratively.
Tying +skill advancement rate to training level wouldn't be a bad way around that, but it takes us back to the PF1 balance mechanism that PF2 is trying to avoid for some reason.
Yeah, removing it opens up monster threat ranges, which I like.
With treadmill:
20th-level Fighter (+20) with 22 Str (+6), legendary proficiency (+3), and a +5 magic weapon, has +34 to hit.
A Pit Fiend has an AC of 44.Without treadmill:
20th-level Fighter with 22 Str (+6), legendary proficiency (+3), and a +5 magic weapon, has +14 to hit.
A Pit Fiend has an AC of 24.Nothing has changed in regards to what you need to roll for a success/crit, etc.
With (+level):
20th-level Fighter, AC 45, +34 to hit
Pit Fiend, AC 44, +35 to hit
Fire Giant, AC 28, +20 to hit
Ghoul, AC 15, +7 to hitWithout (+level):
20th-level Fighter, AC 25, +14 to hit
Pit Fiend, AC 24, +15 to hit
Fire Giant, AC 18, +10 to hit
Ghoul, AC 14, +6 to hit
This last is by far the best as it still leaves 10% hit chance for ghould vs 20th lvl fighter and half of those will be crits.