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I've ran 2 sessions of Pathfinder 2nd Edition so far, and this is all of the feedback I've collected from my players and myself.
1: Goblins should not get a bonus to Charisma. They are hideous, unpleasant little bastards that society still doesn't like very much. I would give them Dexterity and Constitution because Goblins typically live in kind of gross environments out of necessity and would be hardier because they're used to wallowing in filth.
2: Strike, Stride, Seek and a lot of other things are awkward terminology. My players and I feel stupid saying them, and we frequently make fun of the weird new terminology at the table.
3: Wizards should cast spells like Arcanists. This isn't actually something mechanically wrong with the system, but I hate how they have to meticulously plan every single casting of their spells. I loved the freedom of being able to prepare a small pool and cast from that. I think it creates a smoother play session where the wizard can prepare a situational spell like Knock or something without completely freezing up a valuable, and limited, spell slot just to use that one spell, if they happen to come up against a locked door.
4: you should be able to drop items held in both hands as a single action. It doesn't make sense to have to use two separate free actions to drop the item in one hand and then the item in another. it's silly.
5: I feel that the duration on positive and negative effects should both last until the end of the turn. It feels pointless to make them resolve at different times, and it adds a small extra bit of confusion.
6: Why do creatures hiding in darkness treat creatures in lit areas they can see as 'Concealed'. that's weird. If I'm hiding in the shadows of the rafters, I don't have a hard time seeing the creatures in the well lit room below me.
7: I feel that you should be able to perform activities over multiple turns at the risk of being attacked and losing all of the spent actions. For instance, you could start an activity that takes 3 actions using the last action of your turn, then on your next turn finish it with the first 2 actions of that turn, but if you take damage you have to roll concentration or something to not get distracted and lose it.
8: You should put how far you fall in one turn. I know it's a long distance, but the question "How far do you fall in 6 seconds" is something I've asked a lot, and I feel like you could just put it in there really easly. It's nearly 600 feet or something.
9: You should bring back equipment kits. They're a great way of getting all of the equipment you need without having to meticulously comb through the lists. I don't know why you removed them.
10: Ball bearings. Add them to the game. They're like Caltrops that trip you instead.
11: the Sleep spell says "The target falls asleep" I feel like this should state more clearly that the target "Gains the Asleep condition" for clarity's sake.
12: HP recovery while resting, as it is currently written, would only heal a level 20 character with a 10 constitution by 1 HP.
It's current wording states that you heal a number of hit points equal to your Constitution Modifier x your level (Minimum 1), meaning that if you have a constitution modifier of 0 or less, you will only ever heal 1 HP, no matter how high your level is.
The minimum value you heal should be equal to your level, not 1.
13: I find it weird that you don't get a feat at first level.
14: My players feel that monsters being able to strike up to 3 times a round makes them too dangerous, and increases the chance that they'll hit (or critical hit) by sheer volume. Most low level monsters that I've run so far don't do anything other than attack, meaning that they would logically just attack as many times as they can manage, and the one fighter has to take most of those attacks because he's the first in to the fight.
This also means that a low AC, low HP character, like our Wizard is at extreme danger because a goblin has a much higher chance to hit him multiple times than the fighter, who has more HP and more AC. He could realistically die in one round of a goblin running up to him and hitting him twice.
15: Bulk is not a good system. It's far too abstract, and the number is far too low. Every one of my players, including the fighter, feel that they're being artificially limited by the Bulk system. They each can carry about 1 weapon, a piece of armor and a piece of adventuring gear. My fight has a Whip, a Rapier and his armor and he's at his weight limit. My cleric is much the same.
Also, a dagger should not weigh 5 - 10 pounds, so it shouldn't be a bulk. it should be L.
I would double the bulk limit, as it currently stands it feels far too low.
16: The wording on Afflictions is weird. It states that "On a successful or critically successful saving throw, you are unaffected by that exposure to the affliction. You do not need to attempt further saving throws against it unless you are exposed to the affliction again."
This came up in response to the Fungus room in the first adventure section. It leaves a lingering cloud of spores, and the wording of this paragraph implies that if you walk into the cloud, breathe the spores, and make your save that you shouldn't have to make the save again, no matter how long you spend in the cloud.
That sounds ridiculous, and I'm pretty sure that's not how it works, but the wording suggests that it is.
17: 3 action Heal doesn't increase with your level. 1 and 2 action heal recovers HP equal to 1d8 plus spellcasting modifier, and that increases to 2d8 when heightened. 3 action heal does not gain a benefit from being hightened.
This is a problem given how much damage enemies can deal because of how many attacks they can do in a turn, and also makes 3 action healing a waste of time when you're higher level.
18: The layout of the book isn't great. Spells should be at the back of the book, where they always have been. It makes it easier to find the spell section when you're looking, and it prevents Spells from taking up almost 100 pages in the middle of the book.
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19: Adventure backgrounds are irritating. You're required to take an Adventure Background, and you only get one background, meaning that you have little freedom when you're doing premade adventures.
It worked better in PF1 when you had traits, because you got 2 traits and then the 1 adventure trait on top of it.
My players were all pissed when we found out you were required to take an adventure background because it felt like it limited their options.
20: You should be able to choose 1 or 2 skills to make Signature regardless of your class. It feels super restrictive not to be able to get Master or Legend in a skill just because of your class choice, and it feels like it limits player expression.
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I agree with pretty much everything except ball bearings. Unless you have a flat, hard floor, they're not going to roll anywhere. Might as well just chuck some gravel on the ground for all the good it'll do. And ball bearings should be incredibly expensive if they're anything like the modern things.
I agree with pretty much everything except ball bearings. Unless you have a flat, hard floor, they're not going to roll anywhere. Might as well just chuck some gravel on the ground for all the good it'll do. And ball bearings should be incredibly expensive if they're anything like the modern things.
Could do marbles. I don't think they need to be perfectly round to do their job.
And there are a lot of pretty smooth stone or paved floors that are just asking to be covered in marbles or ball bearings.
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12: HP recovery while resting, as it is currently written, would only heal a level 20 character with a 10 constitution by 1 HP.
It's current wording states that you heal a number of hit points equal to your Constitution Modifier x your level (Minimum 1), meaning that if you have a constitution modifier of 0 or less, you will only ever heal 1 HP, no matter how high your level is.
The minimum value you heal should be equal to your level, not 1.
I interpreted that as
Constitution Modifier (Minimum 1) x your levelSo if you were level 20, you'd get back 20 hp minimum.
I'm thinking your interpretation is right, but I don't like that at all. Even 20 hp is quite... bad for a level 20 character.
Having said that, this is kind of an edge case, I don't think there's anyone who would level a PC to level 20 and not boost Con. And if they did that, they probably wouldn't care if they received 1 hp per night. :)
It's an obvious trick. I did know someone who, having got marbles in a D&D game, wanted to use them everywhere - the rules for them didn't specify nice smooth stone floors. It got pretty silly.
5) I have no idea why the designers of PF2 felt Initiative should "Usually" be Perception. Perception is WIS based. Initiative should be DEX based because it relates to how quickly the character can bring his body into action. Initiative occurs only when the PCs have decided that action is necessary or desirable. Suppose the PC Perceives someone hiding behind a rock beside a road. Is that person hiding in order to ambush the PC or because he is afraid the PC will rob or kill him? It is only after the PC has reached a judgment that the skulker is a threat that he needs to make a check as to how quickly he can react to it.
First and most importantly - PC's don't decide when initiative is rolled, the GM does.
Awareness is just as justifiable as speed. Just because it's been dex based so far, there is no reason it has to remain so. If someone persuades you speed is relevant you can always allow them to use acrobatics.
If the players are assessing the risk posed by the skulking individual that is still perceptions as perception covers sense motive as well. If the players are trying to sneak up on the skulker that's stealth. If they engage the skulker in conversation then other options come into play.
15: Bulk is not a good system. It's far too abstract, and the number is far too low. Every one of my players, including the fighter, feel that they're being artificially limited by the Bulk system. They each can carry about 1 weapon, a piece of armor and a piece of adventuring gear. My fight has a Whip, a Rapier and his armor and he's at his weight limit. My cleric is much the same.
Also, a dagger should not weigh 5 - 10 pounds, so it shouldn't be a bulk. it should be L.
I would double the bulk limit, as it currently stands it feels far too low.
A dagger is actually L. I think you probably read the table too fast. Also, the heaviest of armors (full plate, too expensive for level 1) is 4 Bulk. The heaviest weapon is 2 Bulk. Very few pieces of adventuring gear are more than 1 Bulk. If the total of these 3 things (7 Bulk) put you at your limit, then it mean you have 14 Str. I wouldn't recommend choosing heavy armor if you aren't investing more than that in Str.
Also, remember that L objects don't add to your encumbrance unless you have at least 10 of them: 6.999 Bulk counts as 6 Bulk.
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Very few pieces of adventuring gear are more than 1 Bulk.
Just don't pick up one of those 8 bulk sewing kits... :P
What's even MORE impressive, an entire chest is 100% taken up, with no room to spare, a snare kit or a sewing kit... :P It can also fit 2 10' ladders, 4 OTHER chests [must work like russian nesting dolls], 4000' or rope, 80 hooded lanterns and a non-vast number of vials of oil, 80 suits of padded armor or 80 light shields.
Also, remember that L objects don't add to your encumbrance unless you have at least 10 of them: 6.999 Bulk counts as 6 Bulk.
Moral of the story: don't forget to cheese the system that allows 44 pounds of items to count as no weight or encumbrance:
Any item between 5 and "a few ounces" is L meaning a 4.9 pound item is L.9 of those L items is 44.1 pounds and by the rules NOT a single bulk and hence 0 bulk for carry... So the key to making bulk work is to package everything into 4.9 pound bundles and you never have to worry about it again.
Very few pieces of adventuring gear are more than 1 Bulk.Just don't pick up one of those 8 bulk sewing kits... :P
What's even MORE impressive, an entire chest is 100% taken up, with no room to spare, a snare kit or a sewing kit... :P It can also fit 2 10' ladders, 4 OTHER chests [must work like russian nesting dolls], 4000' or rope, 80 hooded lanterns and a non-vast number of vials of oil, 80 suits of padded armor or 80 light shields.
Also, remember that L objects don't add to your encumbrance unless you have at least 10 of them: 6.999 Bulk counts as 6 Bulk.Moral of the story: don't forget to cheese the system that allows 44 pounds of items to count as no weight or encumbrance:
Any item between 5 and "a few ounces" is L meaning a 4.9 pound item is L.
9 of those L items is 44.1 pounds and by the rules NOT a single bulk and hence 0 bulk for carry... So the key to making bulk work is to package everything into 4.9 pound bundles and you never have to worry about it again.
That was my bad. I read the number of hands instead of the bulk, I think.
But that adds another issue.
Why are 10 Short Swords as much bulk as a single Long Sword?
6: Why do creatures hiding in darkness treat creatures in lit areas they can see as 'Concealed'. that's weird. If I'm hiding in the shadows of the rafters, I don't have a hard time seeing the creatures in the well lit room below me.
I kind of agree here. Actually, what would make sense to me, would be if this Concealment applies only on FIRST round you can see Normal Light area, after being entirely in Darkness... And that effect should logically persist even if you ENTER the normal Light area on this first round... So both more and less penalizing than current version.
7: I feel that you should be able to perform activities over multiple turns at the risk of being attacked and losing all of the spent actions. For instance, you could start an activity that takes 3 actions using the last action of your turn, then on your next turn finish it with the first 2 actions of that turn, but if you take damage you have to roll concentration or something to not get distracted and lose it.
Agreed, although I think Concentration only needs to apply to things that already have it, like Spellcasting.
11: the Sleep spell says "The target falls asleep" I feel like this should state more clearly that the target "Gains the Asleep condition" for clarity's sake.
Agreed, it undermines the entire point of formalizing it as Condition if that isn't adhered to. Although personally I feel "Sleep" / "Sleep 3" etc is better name for Condition.
14: My players feel that monsters being able to strike up to 3 times a round makes them too dangerous...
This sentiment is better backed up by your actual experience on 3rd attacks hitting... And relative viability of 3rd attack vs. other action alternatives when available.
5) I have no idea why the designers of PF2 felt Initiative should "Usually" be Perception. Perception is WIS based. Initiative should be DEX based because it relates to how quickly the character can bring his body into action. Initiative occurs only when the PCs have decided that action is necessary or desirable. Suppose the PC Perceives someone hiding behind a rock beside a road. Is that person hiding in order...
I agree, the default should still be speed, it should be based on Dex.
SOMETIMES, it should be based on perception, for example you don't know if someone is there.
But mostly, when we're going from room to room, and we're ready to fight and the enemy is not hiding, it should be DEX.
Another house rule I guess.