One of my players and I are trying to come up with a neat whip using Bard archetype. He was wanting to be able to still use Trip to some effect in our Rise of the Runelords game. But in the third adventure on, he's fighting bigger things and eventually Giants. Stuff that's REALLY hard to trip.
I've not really designed much in the way of classes before, so I'll these boards in their infinite wisdom. Any help would be greatly appreciated
Lashing Lyricist
Rallying Cry (as the Arcane Duelist):
Rallying Cry (Su): At 1st level, a lashing lyricist can use performance to rally dispirited allies. Each round he makes an Intimidate check with a crack of his whip. Any ally (including the bard) within 30 feet may use this check in place of his own saving throw against fear and despair effects. Those already under a fear or despair effect can attempt a new save each round using the bard’s Intimidate check. Rallying cry does not work on effects that don’t allow saves. This is a mind-affecting ability that uses audible components. This performance replaces countersong.
Bonus Feats:
A lashing lyricist combines his arcane insight with his mastery of the whip. He gains a bonus feat at 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter. (again, much like the Arcane Duelist's bonus feats)
2nd - Supple Lash - By focusing his weapon training singularly on the whip, the character strikes with stunning alacrity. His attacks with a whip do not provoke attacks of opportunity.
6th - Threatening Whip - Continual training with his whip has given the character the ability to threaten opponents within reach of his whip.
10th - Punishing Slash - The character's uncanny accuracy with the whip allows him to strike with precision and skill. When making an attack of opportunity with his whip, the character adds his Dex modifier to damage done. This bonus does not apply to regular attacks.
This ability replaces well-versed and versatile performance. (that will hinder some of my skill progressions, but it's a trade-off)
And then, a special feat called Arcane Lash (with a pre-requisite of having Arcane Strike) - You can use the arcane power imbued in your weapon through the Arcane Strike feat in attempts to trip larger creatures. If your Arcane Strike bonus is +1 damage, you can instead trip a foe two sizes larger than yourself (rather than just one, as normal, so, up to huge). When it's a +2 bonus, you may attempt to trip a foe three sizes larger (gargantuan), and so on (up to colossal).
I understand if these need tweaking. Any help would be great. - Thanks
This reminds of the spiked chain tripper from 3.5.. they can be a beast when powered proper. But I have run the Runelords and you are right. They will be most monsters very hard to trip even with all this. The CMD's are just very high. Also many of those that can't be trip at all.
If this is what he wants to face though tell him it will only work on some encounters. Maybe suggest him to look for the Serpent Lash feat. If he is successful on a trip, he can try another immediately if the thing in his reach. That fits the focus on whip and tripper.
*Pardon my English, it is not my proper language
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Bonus Feats:
A lashing lyricist combines his arcane insight with his mastery of the whip. He gains a bonus feat at 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter. (again, much like the Arcane Duelist's bonus feats)
2nd - Supple Lash - By focusing his weapon training singularly on the whip, the character strikes with stunning alacrity. His attacks with a whip do not provoke attacks of opportunity.
6th - Threatening Whip - Continual training with his whip has given the character the ability to threaten opponents within reach of his whip.
10th - Punishing Slash - The character's uncanny accuracy with the whip allows him to strike with precision and skill. When making an attack of opportunity with his whip, the character adds his Dex modifier to damage done. This bonus does not apply to regular attacks.
Very interesting.
I think the 2nd and 6th level feats may be a bit strong. Such a character with enlarge person on them (which is not on the Bard spell list) could be a very strong character.
For example, because whip attacks do not provoke the PC will be using the whip against all foes, even those who are adjacent. This makes the whip an exceptionally good reach weapon. Making Supple Lash available at 2nd level is almost good enough to dip into Bard for two levels. You might consider 4/7/10 for the feats instead. I realize you don't want to push them back too far though, since RotRL will probably end with the PCs at about 14th level.
It might make for some interesting tactical choices if Threatening Whip worked like normal reach weapons, in that the threat range only included the reach distance of the weapon. So the whip would threaten at 15 feet, but not at 10 ft or 5 ft. This would also allow the feat to be split in half: one that allows the whip to threaten at 15 ft, and one that allows the whip to threaten it's entire attack area. This interpretation is better aligned with the rules since they say a reach weapon can only be used at it's range, not closer; so technically the whip works at 15 ft but not at 10 ft or 5 ft. You may want to consider that as a separate feat, but then the fighters using regular reach weapons will get jealous. ;-)
I agree that if you giving this too to other players, if they dip into bard for the feat it would be too much. Is this for them too or just the one? Too, if this is for another campaign it would be much stronger. In Runelords it going to be more balance.
Maybe you would have Rallying Cry replace Distraction instead of the Countersong since Lyricist means song writer. Seems he would keep ability of singing Countersong but not keep Distraction.
Maybe break up threaten feat into two feats, but maybe not. It sound like it going to be difficult part to play in Runelords even with these feats.
*Pardon my English, it is not my proper language
You may consider replacing versatile performances with a combat feat progression (waiving prereqs): 1) Combat Reflexes, 2) Combat Patrol, 3) Stand Still (allowing it to apply to any threatened square).
Then, replace Bardic Lore and Lore Master (1, 5, 11, 17) with something that allows the bard to treat himself as a one category larger (for each Lore Master) for purposes of tripping larger creatures, but he can never be larger than the creature he is tripping. So, at 1st level the bard is treated as large for tripping large and huge creatures. At 5th level, the bard is treated as huge for tripping huge and gargantuan, but large for large. Or you could bump it up so the progression does not begin until 5th level to prevent dippers. If you do that, then let the bard treat his bard level as BAB for purposes of tripping. The nice thing about this variation is you could apply it to any combat maneuver.
When your fighting giants with a whip. Just crack em in the nadds. They'll go down.
I know this is a humerous remark. There has actually been a discussion on "called shots" on the boards. While there is no actual rule for "called shots", the conclusion and advise was that the "critical focus" chain of feats should serve as the "called shot" mechanic.
Kind of neat.
I come back to this post because it is so interesting a puzzle. I like to think! I read through Fortress of the Stone Giants book again and at tenth level even the regular guards your party fights have CMD closing on 40. Some higher.
For bard to trip even half of time, he need CMB 30 just for regular guards. At level 10, he get +7 BAB, +4 feats, +5 dexterity, +5 strength if equipped high, +2 weapon enhance, +2 inspire courage. It comes to 25 CMB.
To solve a puzzle as this if I were GM, I give those feats you suggest so he not taking 3 or 4 attack of opportunities from giants reach. And like TheDoctor say, find way for trip CMB to use bard level for BAB and trip as though he match their size. I suggest maybe the using of the Fascinate and Suggestion line for that new ability but maybe only for trip. It take his CMB up to 28 and give him some chance at least.
If this is your main ability, I would allow, but only if others are not allow to dip and only for this campaign only because it unique this way.
*Pardon my English, it is not my proper language
Maybe on larger opponents he could switch his focus to disarming them instead?