Questioning initiative as is


Prerelease Discussion


The current blog entry states that initiative won't be changed:

Quote:
As we've mentioned elsewhere, encounter mode functions much like it did in Pathfinder First Edition, with each round of play taking 6 seconds of game time. You roll initiative at the start, putting all of the combatants in order; each one takes a turn in initiative order

My issue with rolling initiative right before combat: As a GM you try to build an impression of danger or excitement with describing and showing the scene. Then you ask players to roll initiative - argh, the fight is inevitable now! But the whole excitement collapses while you (or some player) collects and sorts initiative values. Basically the excitement is interrupted by the bureucratic act of handling initiative.

Now there are ways to speed up initiative, for example you and your players can roll multiple times at the begin of the session. And the initiative roll itself creates excitement, sometimes - will I be able to get into position before the puncing dire tiger strikes? So butchering the holy cow "initiative rolls" is probably over the top - but I think a 2nd edition is a good opportunity to tweak it a bit.

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I think the "mode" style of play can help this area. If most encounters are separated by scenes in exploration mode, you can have players make skill checks for what their PCs are doing while exploring. The results of those skill checks can then become initiative rolls when combat begins.

If you want to keep it more of a surprise as to which check counts for initiative, you could have players roll multiple checks during exploration mode. The rogue sneaking ahead while scouting for traps might need to roll Perception to find traps and Stealth to stay hidden, and the GM could decide which of those is most relevant at the point when a combat begins.


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I actually disagree. I find the act of rolling initiative builds suspense, especially when you have no idea why you're rolling it, or you don't know what the monster is yet. There's a tense moment and the GM says, "roll initiative" and I get excited or fearful of the battle to come, depending on the situation.

And several times (as a GM and as a player), I've seen battle be calmed down out of battle rounds by one player trying to talk to the aggressors. It doesn't always work, but sometimes it does. Not everything that starts as a fight has to end as a fight.

Shadow Lodge

I've had the opposite experience, KingGramjohnson. Rolling initiative isn't very fun and can mess up the mode the GM was trying to set. Especially if the PCs were trying to talk their way out of a danger situation(for a change).


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Charlie Brooks wrote:
I think the "mode" style of play can help this area. If most encounters are separated by scenes in exploration mode, you can have players make skill checks for what their PCs are doing while exploring. The results of those skill checks can then become initiative rolls when combat begins.

I love how simple solutions can be the most clever. This is a great way to instantly slip the group into combat. Instead of asking for initiative, it's a fantastic way to drop a surprise raid on the PCs by throwing that first attack roll instead of initiative.

I wouldn't use it all the time, but I love the idea of keeping players on their toes with this as an occasional slip into combat.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

As the GM, have the players roll initiative whenever YOU want them to roll initiative. Pretty straightforward.


Dragonborn3 wrote:
I've had the opposite experience, KingGramjohnson. Rolling initiative isn't very fun and can mess up the mode the GM was trying to set. Especially if the PCs were trying to talk their way out of a danger situation(for a change).

If combat wasn't happening why would you roll for initiative? If there is a conversation going on and no one is trying to stab one another why would you even be in initiative?

Shadow Lodge

Botched rolls or saying the wrong thing. Mostly the second one.


Dragonborn3 wrote:
Botched rolls or saying the wrong thing. Mostly the second one.

So those botched rolls or wrong thing led to a fight? Not sure what the problem is. They tried an rp solution, it failed, and a fight broke out. They can keep talking during the fight, initiative just lets you know how hairy the situation is while that is happening.

If the GM has problems with things escalating this way, why does he escalate them this way? He has control over how the adversaries react, if he didn't want one poor roll to lead to initiative why did it happen?

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