any way to cheat a feat prerequisite to worship a specific deity


Advice


There's a feat I have my eye on, but it's got a totally incompatible religion requirement. So that's a bummer, but I'd love to be able to cheat it. Any way to 'fake' being a worshiper of a deity, enough to fool a feat requirement?


Not in PFS or a RAW campaign, no. If you're in a home game and your GM isn't always RAW-strict, I'd just ask if you could forgo that requirement.


What feat is it? Sometimes there are other ways to get a similar effect.


You can always work something like that into your backstory.

Like you used to worship Dahak, and left it when you grew up.


When you move longer qualify for a feat you can't use it. So leaving worship would mean you don't worship that God.


That is true. I would use the backstory to justify the feat as you beg to the GM. :p

I would allow it depending on the feat. Fighting style, sure, why not? Ceremony where you kill a baby bird? Nah.


If you're a crit-fisher TWF halfling paladin with a sweet pair of wakizashis, it is irksome to discover that the trait Bestial Wrath (+2 crit confirmation) has a must-worship-Rovagug requirement that d20PFSRD doesn't tell you about.


SheepishEidolon wrote:
What feat is it? Sometimes there are other ways to get a similar effect.
Inner Sea Gods wrote:
Steady Engagement: If you use Stand Still to prevent an opponent from moving, you may make a disarm or trip combat maneuver against your target as an immediate action.

I really like this feat, because I really like Stand Still, but...this is for a chaotic evil eidolon, not really into Irori so much...


ohako wrote:
SheepishEidolon wrote:
What feat is it? Sometimes there are other ways to get a similar effect.
Inner Sea Gods wrote:
Steady Engagement: If you use Stand Still to prevent an opponent from moving, you may make a disarm or trip combat maneuver against your target as an immediate action.
I really like this feat, because I really like Stand Still, but...this is for a chaotic evil eidolon, not really into Irori so much...

why not?

Since your eidolon isn't a cleric or other character class that derives their power from a diety it doesn't matter how your alignment compares to that of the diety, you can be diametrically opposed and it's fine. Maybe your eidolon just really likes the exercise wafers, but falls asleep during the whole "hard work and dedication" stuff that the head priest drones on about.


LordKailas wrote:
Since your eidolon isn't a cleric or other character class that derives their power from a diety it doesn't matter how your alignment compares to that of the diety, you can be diametrically opposed and it's fine.

Ohako, is this PFS or a home game? Because I'm pretty sure the PFS Guide requires any character with a deity to be within one step of their alignment. I suppose you could argue that only applies to PCs and not their pets, but that'd be sorta weird.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
LordKailas wrote:
Since your eidolon isn't a cleric or other character class that derives their power from a diety it doesn't matter how your alignment compares to that of the diety, you can be diametrically opposed and it's fine.
Ohako, is this PFS or a home game? Because I'm pretty sure the PFS Guide requires any character with a deity to be within one step of their alignment. I suppose you could argue that only applies to PCs and not their pets, but that'd be sorta weird.

If it's a PFS game, isn't it already violating the rules by being evil?

Especially since, if I remember right, an eidolon automatically has the same alignment as its summoner.


LordKailas wrote:
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
LordKailas wrote:
Since your eidolon isn't a cleric or other character class that derives their power from a diety it doesn't matter how your alignment compares to that of the diety, you can be diametrically opposed and it's fine.
Ohako, is this PFS or a home game? Because I'm pretty sure the PFS Guide requires any character with a deity to be within one step of their alignment. I suppose you could argue that only applies to PCs and not their pets, but that'd be sorta weird.

If it's a PFS game, isn't it already violating the rules by being evil?

Especially since, if I remember right, an eidolon automatically has the same alignment as its summoner.

Ooooo good point... duh, me.


I'll never understand how people can argue that you can worship something that is fundamentally opposite to every belief you have as a person.

A chaotic evil person has literally nothing in common on a moral scale with a lawful neutral God.

Your "faith" is basically "you have a cool feat I want, ok good bye". Which isn't worship at all.


Cavall wrote:

I'll never understand how people can argue that you can worship something that is fundamentally opposite to every belief you have as a person.

A chaotic evil person has literally nothing in common on a moral scale with a lawful neutral God.

Your "faith" is basically "you have a cool feat I want, ok good bye". Which isn't worship at all.

I've had characters like that and I didn't even get anything like a feat or ability out of it. I had a CN fire gnome (wizard) who worshiped Asmodeous (LE). For no reason other than, he was a fire god and my gnome liked fire. For picking his god I literally started at the top of the list and picked the 1st one that gave the fire domain. My character's lack of knowledge religion is why this decision was made this way. My character had leanings toward good meaning this was a nearly a fully diametrically opposed situation.

That being said I think it depends on the alignment in question. A chaotic character is more likely to worship a lawful diety than vise versa since they may be doing it precisely because someone told them they didn't belong. As for good vs evil, someone could easily be mislead into thinking a god is on one end of the spectrum when they are actually on the other.

I will agree that these kinds of inconsistencies are harder to explain if your character has a substantial bonus to knowledge religion unless there is an attempt at subversion happening. But even then, you probably don't "actually" worship the god you're trying to subvert even if it's what you tell everyone.

A lawful good character with 10 ranks in knowledge religion probably wouldn't worship Rovagug except under extreme coercion. A chaotic evil character with 0-1 ranks in knowledge religion might be deceived into genuinely believing that they worship Iomedae. Especially if they were convinced by someone who's only motive was to offload a stolen holy symbol.


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Slim Jim wrote:
If you're a crit-fisher TWF halfling paladin with a sweet pair of wakizashis, it is irksome to discover that the trait Bestial Wrath (+2 crit confirmation) has a must-worship-Rovagug requirement that d20PFSRD doesn't tell you about.

To be fair, that last part's not Paizo's fault.


LordKailas wrote:
Cavall wrote:

I'll never understand how people can argue that you can worship something that is fundamentally opposite to every belief you have as a person.

A chaotic evil person has literally nothing in common on a moral scale with a lawful neutral God.

Your "faith" is basically "you have a cool feat I want, ok good bye". Which isn't worship at all.

I've had characters like that and I didn't even get anything like a feat or ability out of it. I had a CN fire gnome (wizard) who worshiped Asmodeous (LE). For no reason other than, he was a fire god and my gnome liked fire. For picking his god I literally started at the top of the list and picked the 1st one that gave the fire domain. My character's lack of knowledge religion is why this decision was made this way. My character had leanings toward good meaning this was a nearly a fully diametrically opposed situation.

That being said I think it depends on the alignment in question. A chaotic character is more likely to worship a lawful diety than vise versa since they may be doing it precisely because someone told them they didn't belong. As for good vs evil, someone could easily be mislead into thinking a god is on one end of the spectrum when they are actually on the other.

I will agree that these kinds of inconsistencies are harder to explain if your character has a substantial bonus to knowledge religion unless there is an attempt at subversion happening. But even then, you probably don't "actually" worship the god you're trying to subvert even if it's what you tell everyone.

A lawful good character with 10 ranks in knowledge religion probably wouldn't worship Rovagug except under extreme coercion. A chaotic evil character with 0-1 ranks in knowledge religion might be deceived into genuinely believing that they worship Iomedae. Especially if they were convinced by someone who's only motive was to offload a stolen holy symbol.

Had a paladin in a similar situation (since outside of official Golarion, paladins get their powers independant of a deity). They were half-orc, and decided that having a martial half-orc deity (i.e. Gorum) was completely reasonable. After all, there are paladins of the god of dwarfiness, and said deity is a massive jerk when it comes to orcs and orc relatives.


Cavall wrote:

I'll never understand how people can argue that you can worship something that is fundamentally opposite to every belief you have as a person.

A chaotic evil person has literally nothing in common on a moral scale with a lawful neutral God.

Your "faith" is basically "you have a cool feat I want, ok good bye". Which isn't worship at all.

Oh, well, please excuse the misunderstanding. I don't want my character's chaotic evil pet to worship Irori, I want my character's chaotic evil pet to cheat at worshiping Irori and sneak a feat she shouldn't have. Was that not clear by the thread title?

I guess there isn't a phylactery of heresy, is there?

Also

Pathfinder Unchained wrote:
An eidolon must be within one alignment step of the summoner who calls it (so a neutral good summoner can call a neutral, lawful good, or chaotic good eidolon) and can speak all of his languages.

It is legal, and PFS-legal, for a chaotic neutral summoner to have a chaotic evil eidolon. Which is great RP fun, by the way.


Cavall wrote:
A chaotic evil person has literally nothing in common on a moral scale with a lawful neutral God.

Only if you define morality solely by alignment.

As for worshiping a god too far from your alignment: The elephant in the room is real-world religion, in which pretty much every major deity has worshipers that would run the gamut of alignments if judged by Pathfinder standards. Granted, real world worshipers don't have to worry about having their divine powers taken away.


Exactly. So it's a false equivalent. Worshipping a good God and doing evil and wondering why you aren't getting answered is why there's an atonement spell.

Earth isn't ruled by detect alignment spells, or have actual demons and Angels. So any elephant can find it's way out of the room.

Is morality solely defined by alignment? Alignment is certainly used as its guideline.

"A creature’s general moral and personal attitudes are represented by its alignment: lawful good, neutral good, chaotic good, lawful neutral, neutral, chaotic neutral, lawful evil, neutral evil, or chaotic evil."


ohako wrote:
Cavall wrote:

I'll never understand how people can argue that you can worship something that is fundamentally opposite to every belief you have as a person.

A chaotic evil person has literally nothing in common on a moral scale with a lawful neutral God.

Your "faith" is basically "you have a cool feat I want, ok good bye". Which isn't worship at all.

Oh, well, please excuse the misunderstanding. I don't want my character's chaotic evil pet to worship Irori, I want my character's chaotic evil pet to cheat at worshiping Irori and sneak a feat she shouldn't have. Was that not clear by the thread title?

I guess there isn't a phylactery of heresy, is there?

Also

Pathfinder Unchained wrote:
An eidolon must be within one alignment step of the summoner who calls it (so a neutral good summoner can call a neutral, lawful good, or chaotic good eidolon) and can speak all of his languages.
It is legal, and PFS-legal, for a chaotic neutral summoner to have a chaotic evil eidolon. Which is great RP fun, by the way.

Oh no I assure you, you were quite clear of your wants and desires. I don't think you came across that way and sorry if I seemed to make it appear otherwise


ohako wrote:
SheepishEidolon wrote:
What feat is it? Sometimes there are other ways to get a similar effect.
Inner Sea Gods wrote:
Steady Engagement: If you use Stand Still to prevent an opponent from moving, you may make a disarm or trip combat maneuver against your target as an immediate action.
I really like this feat, because I really like Stand Still, but...this is for a chaotic evil eidolon, not really into Irori so much...

Phew, the closest thing I found is: Wolf Style, probably augmented by Wolf Trip. Deal enough damage by an AOO and you get a trip attempt on top of it.

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