You know--it strikes me, with the rewrite, that gish is core, and that maybe Warpriest is, sneakily, already Core. (And that this needed its own thread.)
So, please bear with me here.
The following things we know or suspect:
1. Due to action economy, gish will be possible out of the box. So, less need for classes like magus.
2. BAB is tied to level.
3. Clerics will have fewer spells, but more class options.
...to me, this suggests we can suggest ideas for the cleric to be able to branch into multiple pathways, based on class choice:
A. Casting priest
B. Warpriest
What do you think?
Related Threads (tied to Magus):
* One
* Two
* Three
* ...more?
It would be pretty awesome, imo.
If multi classing works with casting than a fighter cleric multi class with some feats should be able to work as a good war priest.
If they keep 1e multi classing you'll still need new classes for every combo for them to actually work.
Well, they are what they are at this point so, we will find out down the line really.
On a side note, even if it is kinda of possible to make them as side guys, it probably would be better to just build them from ground up as their own thing.
Even more cause their mechanics would be kinda funky with the new action economy wouldnt they?
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The Warpriest is in the same position as the Magus where it filled a mechanical niche more than a thematic one; they both existed exclusively to improve the action economy of relying on spells to do martial combat, which isn't really necessary in 2E with the new actions system (a cleric can cast a spell+attack with a weapon in one turn in PF2 just as well as a warpriest could in PF1). The only reason for the Warpriest to exist is for it to be a charisma-based alternative to the Paladin for other alignments.
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The Warpriest is in the same position as the Magus where it filled a mechanical niche more than a thematic one; they both existed exclusively to improve the action economy of relying on spells to do martial combat, which isn't really necessary in 2E with the new actions system (a cleric can cast a spell+attack with a weapon in one turn in PF2 just as well as a warpriest could in PF1). The only reason for the Warpriest to exist is for it to be a charisma-based alternative to the Paladin for other alignments.
If Paladins are losing spellcasting, and just getting litanies, than there probably is a thematic niche there for a reduced casting, more martial divine caster.
(a cleric can cast a spell+attack with a weapon in one turn in PF2 just as well as a warpriest could in PF1).
Not quite, I think. Warpriest can move, cast a spell on themselves, then attack, or cast a spell on themselves and full attack. 2E cleric can attack once and cast a 2 action spell only if they're already next to an opponent.
Some spells are 1 action though (like heal), so it could still work out well if we have a good selection of 1 action spells.
(a cleric can cast a spell+attack with a weapon in one turn in PF2 just as well as a warpriest could in PF1).Not quite, I think. Warpriest can move, cast a spell on themselves, then attack, or cast a spell on themselves and full attack. 2E cleric can attack once and cast a 2 action spell only if they're already next to an opponent.
Some spells are 1 action though (like heal), so it could still work out well if we have a good selection of 1 action spells.
I think this could be a good reason to really dig into the new spell options.
Sounds like it could be fun!
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Yeah, if we get some one action self buff spells the cleric will be sitting pretty as a war priest. I wouldn't be shocked if Divine Favor became one action. You've got less spell slots so for it to remain compentive it may need to let you cast, move, and strike in the same turn.
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I agree that, effectively, if there are options in 2E that allow you to more effectively combine combat and casting (instead of making your casting more powerful), then we don't have as much a need for "gish-in-a-can" classes.
If Paizo deems it necessary to have archetypes that nerf the class' spellcasting to gain access to these options, then that's fine too.
Spellblade Wizard that gets 6th level casting in exchange for better proficiencies and making a Strike in place of the somatic spellcasting action.
Warrior Priest Cleric that gets 6th level casting in exchange for better proficiencies and reducing the casting actions of spells that target themselves, or maybe raising a shield in place of the somatic spellcasting action.
Overall, the action economy and the classes themselves being more granular means that we don't necessarily need as many individual classes to fill the same design or roleplay niches.
I'm actually more in favor of those classes getting a treatment, action economy or no. Both are unique enough that a multiclass variant seems I dunno watered down?
I would say (from what we know so far) that a Melee focused Wizard/Sorcerer or Cleric is certainly more doable in P2 core. It seems likely that the new rules along with new action economy will greatly facilitate the spell + sword round.
That being said, I would say that a Magus, and to a lesser extent the Warpriest, still have some unique design space that would allow for those classes to exist, just not quite the same as in P1. Specifically I am thinking of the Magus Arcana, which are (were? haven't seen wizard/sorcerer preview yet) unique abilities that really help to make them stand out from the Wizard/Fighter Multiclass. This is in contrast with say a Witch, which could easily be done with an archetype just switching out the class feats for a Wizard with Hexes instead (while the unique spell list is flavorful it is not necessary).
Even with the more modular design, where every class is going toward full the "talents" design space (really turned up to 11), there is still space for a 6th level caster, since changing from 9th to 6th would still probably be too big for just an archetype.
Classes like Inquisitor and Bloodrager are probably more likely to pop up before a Warpriest (not Magus, just too popular) since they have much more unique design and interesting abilities that can't be fudged with a multiclass.
We don't actually know if 6th level casting is confirmed. Signs point to 4th level being gone, so...
I am down for Warpriest and Magus at some point, but think they will be a better product once the new action economy has been put through its paces.