I was wondering how health points will work in Pathfinder v2, since we now know each ancestry will have differenciated "racial health points".
In v1, you only had your class health points, and you had to roll a dice to know how many you got. This created some strange outcomes where an unlucky warrior had less HP than a lucky wizard at higher levels.
Now, in v2, you get racial health points at first level. But do you get racial health points every levels too, like your class health points ? Or is it just at first level ?
Also, if we think about health points, we also need to think about damages. Have damages been increased too, to preserve the current balancing ? Have they been more increased than the HPs, so the game is deadlier than before ? Or have the damages been kept the same and the game made easier at lower levels ?
Well I know that magic weapons add dice of damage. so +3 would be also +3 dice which could add some more damage but at the same time I think their is going to be a sharp reduction in number of attacks to. Hard to say at this point I think.
Not a fan of ancestral hit points anyway. It makes a already attractive race like dwarves more so, and a less attractive race like elves less so. Heck even for wizards dwarf is already the better choice since you can simply exchange your wis bonus for int and get 4 extra hit points and your higher con bonus and the dwarven resistances. Sounds like a better deal to me.
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Not a fan of ancestral hit points anyway. It makes a already attractive race like dwarves more so, and a less attractive race like elves less so. Heck even for wizards dwarf is already the better choice since you can simply exchange your wis bonus for int and get 4 extra hit points and your higher con bonus and the dwarven resistances. Sounds like a better deal to me.
You don't trade your Wis bonus, you use your flexible bonus. Since Elves already have Dex and Int, they'd put their flex bonus to remove their Con penalty. Dwarves can take an ancestry feat for poison resistances, and presumably elves can take an ancestry feat for better magic. The elf will have higher AC, and the dwarf will have higher hitpoints.
I also think you're discounting the importance of movement. Lets put an elf wizard and a dwarf wizard up against a human rogue (fighter's AoO complicates things a little too much). The elf and the dwarf both move away (one action) and cast a spell (two actions). The elf's opponent has to move twice to attack the elf (only getting to attack once), while the dwarf's opponent only needs to move once (getting two attacks). Against fighters, though, they both have to eat an AoO, or just use the step action instead of the stride (leaving them both one move away from the fighter).
Ancestral hit points are just codifying a common house rule, that I actually use myself, where a 1st level character still gets their "racial hit die" to make them more survivable. Mixed with the single most common house rule in the game, static HP per hit die. You don't want low level players stopping the adventure to rest after taking a single hit.
That said, they do seem weirdly high: Starfinder did this as well but the racial and class numbers were lower. But actual numbers can be tweaked as a result of playtest surveys if they still seem too high after actual play. It's possible that things just do more damage now.
Ancestral hit points are just codifying a common house rule, that I actually use myself, where a 1st level character still gets their "racial hit die" to make them more survivable. Mixed with the single most common house rule in the game, static HP per hit die. You don't want low level players stopping the adventure to rest after taking a single hit.
That said, they do seem weirdly high: Starfinder did this as well but the racial and class numbers were lower. But actual numbers can be tweaked as a result of playtest surveys if they still seem too high after actual play. It's possible that things just do more damage now.
I suspect they're higher to make it a little more balanced. Picking between 4 and 8 is more significant than picking between 6 and 10.
The sense that I am getting is that healing will not be as easy as PF1 and that damage will be moderate compared to hit points. It seems to be moving back more towards attrition of resources and you get worn down over time. Hopefully damage is such that you don't have to be at full all the time and instead it gets chipped away.
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Not a fan of ancestral hit points anyway. It makes a already attractive race like dwarves more so, and a less attractive race like elves less so. Heck even for wizards dwarf is already the better choice since you can simply exchange your wis bonus for int and get 4 extra hit points and your higher con bonus and the dwarven resistances. Sounds like a better deal to me.
It looks like the ancestral hit points are one of the ways they are balancing the base stats of the race.
elf - +5 move (90'/rd) (105'/rd with Nimble racial feat)
goblin - +darkvision, move (75'/rd)
dwarf - +darkvision, -5 move (60'/rd), +4hp(one time)
And remember that Con and starting racial HP aren't as impactful as before since all characters are getting max hp per level.
edit: looks like others beat me to the punch on most of this info
Not a fan of ancestral hit points anyway. It makes a already attractive race like dwarves more so, and a less attractive race like elves less so. Heck even for wizards dwarf is already the better choice since you can simply exchange your wis bonus for int and get 4 extra hit points and your higher con bonus and the dwarven resistances. Sounds like a better deal to me.I'd rather be an elf wizard hands down. Lets take two scenarios. Elf Wizard vs Dwarf Fighter and Dwarf Wizard vs Elf Fighter. In both we assume they are in melee.
Scen 1: The Elf wizard eats an attack of opportunity once. They then walk away 3 times. The Dwarf cannot catch the elf ever now. Every other round the elf can take an action other than moving and still have a lead on the dwarf.
Scen 2: The dwarf wizard cannot escape the elf fighter.
EDIT: Actually the dwarf is 10ft slower than the elf not 5 so my scenarios were innacurate. Every 3 rounds the elf can spend no time moving and unleash a full 3 actions of spells and still have 30ft space banked to do that again sooner.
Elf Wizard, Dwarf Fighter. Speeds 30 versus 20.
Round 1: Adjacent, Elf Wizard's Turn. He moves three (90). Eats AoO. Distance is now 90.
Dwarf's Turn: He moves three (60). Distance is now 30.
Round 2: Elf Wizard casts a spell. Two Actions. Moves (30). Distance is now 60.
Dwarf's Turn: Moves three (60). Adjacent.
Round 3: Rinse and repeat from Round 1.
If at any point the Elf stops moving at least 1 action each turn, the Dwarf Fighter catches them in 2 Actions and can use 1 to Attack. The only way they can keep their lead is if they spend 2 Actions each round to move, at which point they can't cast most of their spells.
In any case, it is apt to bring out the Benny Hill Music.
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Of course LV1 HP are high, because everyone can do 3 attacks since LV1
Hey everyone I know my original post was controversial, I still stick by it, but I‘ll admit until we see the rest of the playest I don't really have all the information, elves may have something to make up for it. Also, I personally have no issue with characters starting with more HP and wasn't implying that. The three attacks per round kinda dictates that has to happen.
Now I‘ll let everyone cool down a bit.
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We know more or less how HP work. You get racial HP at 1st level only. At every level, including 1st, you get Class + Con Mod HP.
Class HP is a flat number based on what their HD used to be (Fighters get 10, Clerics get 8, etc.)
So a Con 14 Fighter has 12 HP + Racial HP at 1st (so 22 for a Dwarf, 20 for a Human, 18 for an Elf). That's meaningful but not huge.
By 10th level, though, that Dwarf has 130, that Human 128, and that Elf 126...and that HP matters a lot less.
Now, in practice, the Dwarf also would probably have more Con than the Elf, but Con has always been good for having high HP and that hasn't changed.
Regarding the move difference between elf and dwarf: while it will be something to take into account, there will likely be options that make things less clear-cut. TheFinish's scenario could also likely be this:
Elf Wizard, Dwarf Fighter. Speeds 30 versus 20.
Round 1: Adjacent, Elf Wizard's Turn. He moves three (90). Eats AoO. Distance is now 90.
Dwarf's Turn: He runs for 4x speed (80). Distance is now 10.
Round 2: Elf Wizard casts a spell. Two Actions. Moves (30). Distance is now 40.
Dwarf's Turn: Sudden Charge (Moves 40 and strikes once), Strikes a second time.
Round 3: ...
The wizard could of course probably also run on the first round for 120 ft. movement but the goal of the above is just to point that things are probably not as simple as they may look at first sight.
A simple hold person spell or trip maneuver could also be very effective in this situation. Likewise a dwarf wizard with a bow coul still be a threat to an elf who likes to run away, and well there's a lot more. For my money the HP and fort save bonus (if that still applies) seems just better.
After 3 rounds the Elf has a 90 ft lead on the dwarf. He can stand still and do nothing but insult the dwarf and the dwarf will still only get to within 30ft of the Elf....Not a fan of ancestral hit points anyway. It makes a already attractive race like dwarves more so, and a less attractive race like elves less so. Heck even for wizards dwarf is already the better choice since you can simply exchange your wis bonus for int and get 4 extra hit points and your higher con bonus and the dwarven resistances. Sounds like a better deal to me.I'd rather be an elf wizard hands down. Lets take two scenarios. Elf Wizard vs Dwarf Fighter and Dwarf Wizard vs Elf Fighter. In both we assume they are in melee.
Scen 1: The Elf wizard eats an attack of opportunity once. They then walk away 3 times. The Dwarf cannot catch the elf ever now. Every other round the elf can take an action other than moving and still have a lead on the dwarf.
Scen 2: The dwarf wizard cannot escape the elf fighter.
EDIT: Actually the dwarf is 10ft slower than the elf not 5 so my scenarios were innacurate. Every 3 rounds the elf can spend no time moving and unleash a full 3 actions of spells and still have 30ft space banked to do that again sooner.
Elf Wizard, Dwarf Fighter. Speeds 30 versus 20.
Round 1: Adjacent, Elf Wizard's Turn. He moves three (90). Eats AoO. Distance is now 90.
Dwarf's Turn: He moves three (60). Distance is now 30.
Round 2: Elf Wizard casts a spell. Two Actions. Moves (30). Distance is now 60.
Dwarf's Turn: Moves three (60). Adjacent.
Round 3: Rinse and repeat from Round 1.
If at any point the Elf stops moving at least 1 action each turn, the Dwarf Fighter catches them in 2 Actions and can use 1 to Attack. The only way they can keep their lead is if they spend 2 Actions each round to move, at which point they can't cast most of their spells.
In any case, it is apt to bring out the Benny Hill Music.
Ah, you meant just moving and moving without doing anything for three rounds. My bad, I misunderstood.
Yes, in that case, barring stuff like running, the dwarf can never catch the elf wizard.
But he can still take out a ranged weapon and shoot him, or maybe trip him with the initial AoO. Nor will fights take place in infinite fields where you can just run infinitely away from each other.
It's a nice bonus, but hardly a game changer.
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The difference become even worst when taking difficult terrain (like a forest...) into account. Nimble let the elf ignore the first square each stride (so they can move 4 squares by actions). The 20ft Dwarf then move 2 squares if in diff. terrain, so 6 max per turns, the elf get to move 12, double the movement. Every odd turn the elf can move once and cast a 2 action spell, and he will only get farther and farther each rounds, even letting them cast a full round spell from time to time. (This is excluding the case where the dwarf have a ranged weapon or other mean of attack... BUT by then, the elf can just cast more spells at him because the Dwarf just don't run toward them that much.)