Seeking Shot / Line Weapon Interaction


Rules Questions


While it is true that the Seeking Shot spell (from the Pact Worlds sourcebook) specifies that you create a link with "one target" that allows your next shot to ignore cover and concealment, it also says that you do not need a line of sight "as long as some route exists between the weapon and the target (regardless of how circuitous that route is). No line in the spell proscribes using it with a weapon that can affect multiple targets at once.

Scenario:
We are fighting inside of an office building. My soldier (who takes this spell with Connection Inkling) targets a foe with this spell and his plasma rifle, and that foe flees the fight, running past several of his allies and making several turns down the hallway as he does.

If I fire the plasma rifle, the attack should follow his path and make those same turns in the hall to strike him. Does it then also strike each of those allies he ran past, assuming they are also in the same "circuitous route"?

Liberty's Edge

For reference:

Line weapon property, pg 181 wrote:

This weapon fires a projectile in a straight line that pierces

through multiple creatures or obstacles. When attacking with such a weapon, make a single attack roll and compare it to the relevant Armor Class of all creatures and objects in a line extending to the weapon’s listed range increment. Roll damage only once. The weapon hits all targets with an AC equal to or lower than the attack roll. However, if an attack fails to damage a creature or obstacle hit in the line (typically due to damage reduction or hardness), the path is stopped and the attack doesn’t damage creatures farther away. A line weapon can’t damage targets beyond its listed range. If you score a critical hit, that effect applies only to the first target hit in the line, and you roll the critical damage separately. If multiple creatures are equally close, you choose which one takes the effects of the critical hit. A line weapon doesn’t benefit from feats or abilities that increase the damage of a single attack (such as the operative’s trick attack).

emphasis mine.

I think the last line is what is important. A line weapon doesn't benefit from abilities, like a spell.


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Gary Bush wrote:

For reference:

Line weapon property, pg 181 wrote:

This weapon fires a projectile in a straight line that pierces

through multiple creatures or obstacles. When attacking with such a weapon, make a single attack roll and compare it to the relevant Armor Class of all creatures and objects in a line extending to the weapon’s listed range increment. Roll damage only once. The weapon hits all targets with an AC equal to or lower than the attack roll. However, if an attack fails to damage a creature or obstacle hit in the line (typically due to damage reduction or hardness), the path is stopped and the attack doesn’t damage creatures farther away. A line weapon can’t damage targets beyond its listed range. If you score a critical hit, that effect applies only to the first target hit in the line, and you roll the critical damage separately. If multiple creatures are equally close, you choose which one takes the effects of the critical hit. A line weapon doesn’t benefit from feats or abilities that increase the damage of a single attack (such as the operative’s trick attack).

emphasis mine.

I think the last line is what is important. A line weapon doesn't benefit from abilities, like a spell.

It specifically says "feats or abilities that increase the damage of a single attack", not "feats or abilities" period.

If that provision meant line didn't benefit from ANY abilities, it would also mean they don't gain any benefit from Weapon Focus, soldier gear boosts, or the like.


It doesn't affect the damage though, it affects the trajectory of the beam. I would allow it because, that's magic for you, but after striking your first target on the most direct route possible the beam will continue for the rest of its range as a line defined from the shooter to the first target and then beyond.


Because enemies could pose as possible obstacles through Energy Resistance or Hardness, they probably would not be considered viable squares for drawing a line of effect from your pc to the target.
I'd reward a creative use of this ability, and much like torbyne suggests, the line should continue through the rest of it's range once it reaches a target or an obstacle (which could be a creature in a doorway or a small hallway and still work as you intend)


I agree with Big Lemon up until the interactions with objects that are not the initial target.

It seems to me that if any of those other objects/targets have cover/concealment from you (because the spell only counts for that first target, correct?) then you're giving yourself a pretty good chance to have your shot miss, and then the line rules come into effect so you can't hit anything else, even your initial target, anymore.

Or, if your initial target took a 90 degree right hand turn, your munitions take the turn to follow him, now you don't have line of effect or sight to anything else in that hall, so they aren't valid targets. Would your shot just end, since you can't damage a non-valid target? Or are we going to draw sight/effect lines from your munition instead of you now, bringing even more non-rule weirdness?


I've come to the conclusion that it would not hit any targets BEFORE my bonded target, but may hit targets AFTER the bonded target, because I think it is the logical conclusion that any object that provides cover would be avoided by the spell, and enemies provide soft cover, whether or not this cover usually applies to a plasma rifle. It's affects beams of energy and bullets the same.

But I do feel that, once the bonded target is struck, the spell ends, so the rest of the beam ought to continue forward in that direction if it has the range to do so.


Pantshandshake wrote:

I agree with Big Lemon up until the interactions with objects that are not the initial target.

It seems to me that if any of those other objects/targets have cover/concealment from you (because the spell only counts for that first target, correct?) then you're giving yourself a pretty good chance to have your shot miss, and then the line rules come into effect so you can't hit anything else, even your initial target, anymore.

Or, if your initial target took a 90 degree right hand turn, your munitions take the turn to follow him, now you don't have line of effect or sight to anything else in that hall, so they aren't valid targets. Would your shot just end, since you can't damage a non-valid target? Or are we going to draw sight/effect lines from your munition instead of you now, bringing even more non-rule weirdness?

Missing doesn't prevent you from hitting other people. Hitting and doing zero damage does.

"However, if an attack fails to damage a creature or obstacle hit in the line "
If you don't hit people between you and the target, it still goes on.
but if you hit someone in between, and they have fire and electrical resistance enough to negate all the damage, then it would stop.


Ok, one at a time.
Big Lemon: I hadn't thought about that. It makes sense, given what that spell is doing. I like it.

Rook1138: It's moot, since I didn't think about the unerringness of the spell, but for what it's worth I didn't mean missing like the beam drove by an enemy, waved, and then continued after the original target. I meant missing like from concealment, or missing because something that is not a valid target interposed itself between your projectile and your target, thus making your shot a failed attack.


They way I read it, Creatures and enemies count as cover. So therefore it couldn't pass through those squares. So if you can not draw a route from point a [attacker] to point b [target] with out a clear (meaning no cover, allies, enemies, walls, etc) then the shot doesn't hit.


Micheal Smith wrote:
They way I read it, Creatures and enemies count as cover. So therefore it couldn't pass through those squares. So if you can not draw a route from point a [attacker] to point b [target] with out a clear (meaning no cover, allies, enemies, walls, etc) then the shot doesn't hit.

With normal attacks, yes, but Seeking Shot specifically avoids all of that as the effect of the spell. You get one shot that go over barrels and bend around corners to get to the foe you target with the spell. The question is whether the seeking shot avoids or collides other targets in between if it is a line weapon (that normally hits everything in its line).

I've decided that no, it does not, but it's certainly a grey area.


-Edit-

Ninja'd by the biggest, baddest lemon around.


After rereading the spell. It states it ignores cover and concealment. So therefore who cares what is in the way. It will navigate around obstacles till it gets to its target. Who cares what you are firing. You have modified how the line fire functions. So you essentially break the rule of firing in a line. Because it is magic it can do what it wants and detect objects and avoid them.

Now the GM makes the final call. But it seems pretty cut an dry to me.

Liberty's Edge

Yea, after thinking about it, I have agree with Micheal.

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