Over 9000's page

You can conceptualize it as either:
Not beating AC causes an actual miss, it which case the line can’t possibly strike someone that’s in a line from the missed target, since the line is going somewhere else.

I never thought of it like that, and the wording is pretty clear; thank you!

"make a single attack roll and compare it to the relevant Armor Class of all creatures and objects in a line extending to the weapon’s listed range increment. Roll damage only once. The weapon hits all targets with an AC equal to or lower than the attack roll. However, if an attack fails to damage a creature or obstacle hit in the line (typically due to damage reduction or hardness), the path is stopped and the attack doesn’t damage creatures farther away."

Yes. One attack roll, and you go through the line in order until the result missed. Then it stops. So if you had 5 characters, 4 grunts and a boss. The boss has AC 15, and the grunts have 13. If they were lined up two grunts, the boss, two grunts, and you got a 14 total for your attack roll, it would pierce the closest grunt, and the second, but stop at the boss. The last two grunts would be missed by the attack.

Edit: I think I lied. It stops if it fails to damage, not miss. So... I'm not sure. A miss would not damage the target, and thus possibly stop it? But it may be specifically referring to say the boss has ER 10 and your damage roll was for less than 10 damage, thus all targets, the two grunts past him, would be missed.

I have the same questions regarding line weapons and cover, but I often assume in situations like yours that the line continues past the boss unless he has some way of negating the attack besides his AC; line weapons should be rewarded for optimal use IMO.

Over 9000 wrote:

You only need to target grid intersections with Heavy Weapons, and therefor AC is completely irrelevant.

Oh yeah right my bad sorry! Not all heavy weapon are DC based, but enough are yeah so you could make it work and since those weapon DC scale of item level, you drone attack would stay relevant. I'm curious to see how it would work, it seems interesting. You got bodyguard Your Drone would be incredibly weak to AOE. Your character would have God-like Base save at level 20. Something like Fort +13, Ref +11 and Will +15 if you go Envoy 6/Mechanic 3/Solarian 1/Soldier 9.

One more question though, why make your Key Stats Charisma? Dex seems like a better choice for better Weapon DCs, initiative and Ac?

You have the right idea to maybe pick soldier first and go with dex with proficiencies, but I find that with heavy armor and using explode heavy weapons (which I did not specify earlier, sorry) you don't need a very high dexterity (just enough for max dex on heavy armor), and you'll gain a lot more out of your other Envoy abilities and skills utilizing a full Charisma. The build I presented probably isn't very optimized, but it emphasizes getting the drone early when it is really good, and then getting your 6 levels of envoy followed by pretty much whatever you want. The only important thing is 3 levels of mechanic, and 6 levels of envoy. Any good combination of those is probably doing pretty well but your later levels might just be keeping your drone's HP, AC, and saves at decent levels so it doesn't just explode when something looks at it.

You only need to target grid intersections with explode Heavy Weapons, and therefor to hit is completely irrelevant.

In my experience, and explained above, proficiencies and resolve make up any level 1 "dip" but I enjoy picking and choosing some of the best things that make up certain classes. One such multiclass character I've had great results with was an Envoy 1, Mechanic 3, Envoy 5 (6 total), Solarian 1, Soldier 1, w/e:
The 1st level of Envoy is to enjoy Get Em and tie your resolve to charisma. The 3 levels in Mechanic will give you a drone that can use heavy weapons and weapon specialization. The rest of the envoy levels are to get what you want and Improved Get Em with the end result being both you and your drone wielding heavy weapons and spraying the battlefield with reliable damage while buffing the team. You'll need Bodyguard and In Harm's Way feats in order to keep your 30hp drone alive later on, but it's a fun little fire support tool that you don't sacrifice much to get. The odd Solarian level is just to boost your BAB, saves, give you +1 AC from solar armor, and +1 damage from photon.
The soldier level gives you BAB, saves, proficiencies, and a style.

Possibly a good choice if you ever get there is grabbing some technomancer levels after you get level 6 spells as a Mystic. You aren't actually losing caster level, it opens up an entirely new spell list to utilize spell gems with, and you don't really get that much from the Mystic 20th level capstone.

I really like your choices, as they support an offensive Photon and defensive Graviton playstyle.
Crush is a good substitute for Gravity Hold as it targets the same save, only requires a move action to maintain on subsequent rounds, and can be used in photon mode.

My impression has been almost the opposite, that multiclassing is basically as bad here as it is in Pathfinder. While most classes don't have relevant capstones, there are plenty of other abilities that you don't want to delay a level or two (or more).

- Solarion and Soldier want to hit 11th ASAP to get their extra attacks on a full attack.
- Mystic and Technomancer want to hit new spell levels at 4th, 7th etc ASAP to maximize DCs and to not miss damage sweet-spots (since spells don't scale their damage with level anymore, most damaging spells have a small level range where they're great, followed by some levels where they're mediocre).
- Operative wants to keep up on Trick Attack progression, as their attack routine has no other way to make up the missing damage from operative weapons and small arms.

The only good dip in my mind is Envoy, as they cap out at 6th if they're not interested in going down the 'hurry'/'improved hurry' line.

I'm with Cellion on multi-classing; the best class interactions occur by continuing a single class. The only exceptions I have found are:

...

If you have any suggestion, please let me know. As I told you, so far I have been pretty eclipsed by my Operative buddy both in combat and out of it and I'm afraid that this will not change...

If you're trying to keep your drone relevant throughout the higher levels, I feel like utilizing explode weapons is really the only way to make up for a low base attack, low dex, and low number of actions.

As for the operative of the party: emphasize your ranged hacking and tricks for Computers, and keep all of your technology skills up to date. Being the "tech guy" should give you plenty of opportunities to outshine his jack-of-all-trades approach. Unfortunately, it isn't hard for an operative to excel in combat, but with an emphasis on heavy weapons you'll shine when combat provides a plethora of foes.

Also... Deadly Aim is a trap.

Because enemies could pose as possible obstacles through Energy Resistance or Hardness, they probably would not be considered viable squares for drawing a line of effect from your pc to the target.
I'd reward a creative use of this ability, and much like torbyne suggests, the line should continue through the rest of it's range once it reaches a target or an obstacle (which could be a creature in a doorway or a small hallway and still work as you intend)

I agree that without movement from the square, the creature isn't technically required to suggest that they "moved". They could just lean out or upwards from their cover to make their shot without actually moving in any way.

Attended and Unattended object rules only apply to targets outside of your person. The only way I would suggest this works is if you used it as a move action on some pistol on the ground next to you or in someone else's hand and then somehow used a swift action (such as the called property) to grab it before utilizing your attack. It would be a free action to drop it afterwards so this should work as you're intending without having to worry about how the rules are interpreted.

it does not provide specialization, however if you had the versatile specialization feat I would rule that it gives you the desired effect.

I believe most of these rules were designed around keeping a PCs natural weapons (like the vesk) relevant compared to how anyone can utilize the improved unarmed strike feat. Unarmed attacks are incredibly versatile... they don’t need to be disguised, you don’t even need free hands to utilize them, and you can’t be disarmed (except literally). That being said, improved unarmed attacks probably should be allowed as an operative weapon as long as you’re not using the ring of fangs. This thread has convinced me that I should wait for an official ruling on whether they stay archaic or not.

It seems like you could probably ignore cover entirely and just consider the AC of creatures and vehicles modified by cover. With the only impact on whether the line continues being DR, Energy Resistance, Hardness (vehicle) and full cover. This probably alleviates a lot of the confusion surrounding how it works, but I'd love if someone could weigh in on this.

I see the DC to set a charge as the DC of the "Arm Explosives" part of the Engineering skill, but others may disagree.

Harness / HP apply depending on the doors material; a door made out of steel has 20 hardness and 30 hp per inch of thickness. You may get additional modifiers based on the type of explosive you're utilizing or determining weak-points in the object.

The GM may have to rule on the next few questions, but I can provide my interpretations:

You probably can't simultaneously detonate objects and expect a similarly large effect.

You should be able to tie multiple devices to one detonator, but the effect of utilizing it would only affect one explosive at a time; and the rules imply one explosion does not trigger another but destroys the object.

I don't think you'd be able to blind creatures on the other side without the effect happening after the door was breached.

If a creature swallowed a grenade, I would say they don't get a save and potentially receive maximum damage but the rules don't support this.

Above keeps players from daisy chaining explosives. If you're looking for more effect, you'll have to utilize a higher level grenade.

1. Do line weapons consider cover bonuses in addition the hardness of whatever object is providing the bonus?

2. Would you only consider the hardness of cover if it would provide the difference between being hit or not? Or would you always have to overcome it's hardness?

3. If you are always considering the hardness of cover when determining the effect of the attack, would cover provide any bonuses to AC? What about soft cover provided by other creatures?

4. What happens when you can perceive a target behind total cover (through blindsense/blindsight or other means) and are able to deal enough damage to pierce that cover? Do they get cover bonuses then? Are they considered flat-footed against the attack if they couldn't perceive you? Are they benefiting from concealment with blindsense but not blindsight?

If you're required to pierce every object in the line then any targets behind steel cover (20 hardness) would be able to avoid your attacks without effort; which seems to make sense until you can deal enough damage to truly punch through with higher level weapons or damage.

LINE
This weapon fires a projectile in a straight line that pierces through multiple creatures or obstacles. When attacking with such a weapon, make a single attack roll and compare it to the relevant Armor Class of all creatures and objects in a line extending to the weapon’s listed range increment. Roll damage only once. The weapon hits all targets with an AC equal to or lower than the attack roll. However, if an attack fails to damage a creature or obstacle hit in the line (typically due to damage reduction or hardness), the path is stopped and the attack doesn’t damage creatures farther away. A line weapon can’t damage targets beyond its listed range. If you score a critical hit, that effect applies only to the first target hit in the line, and you roll the critical damage separately. If multiple creatures are equally close, you choose which one takes the effects of the critical hit. A line weapon doesn’t benefit from feats or abilities that increase the damage of a single attack (such as the operative’s trick attack).

I had an idea for a mind control character that was: Technomancer 2/ Mystic X, to utilize the Robot Influence magic hack to get all your mind affecting spells to also affect robots, constructs, and other mindless creatures. Not incredibly powerful, but definitely increases the versatility of some of your mystic spells/abilities.

They should definitely add some text to Uncanny Mobility or Improved suggesting they allow you to qualify. Unless the Feat Prerequisite says "Mobility feat" you may even interpret they left it ambiguous to allow for it to work with both the class feature and the feat.

Unfortunately they have two provided class builds that have taken the feat to utilize shot on the run or spring attack, but they didn't take the exploit!

...Fish won't eventually climb trees just because you want them to.

I miss Monkey Fish...

I think the primary reason why they don't have a "pure caster" who doesn't need a weapon or armor is because it would royally screw up WBL. ...

...You can, by the way, make a caster who only casts. You just spend the thousands of credits you would be spending on weapons on spell gems and the like.

The utilization of spell gems is paramount to your success as a caster. Not only can you access ANY spell on your spell list, but you can actually cast them of a higher level with a caster level check that doesn't even expend the spell if you fail. You can even slap multiple spells into one spell gem so that you aren't constantly pulling them out of your pack (though this is one large lump sum of credits).

I can understand where it may be challenging to play a caster over long combats or slow campaigns, but that's where other classes are going to be more conservative with their resources anyways. In the meantime: buy your extra spells per day!

I remember seeing someone math this out before, but I'm pretty sure it was determined this would at least account for being significantly less conservative with your spells much like people seem to want to be.

If "Shot on the Run" only let you attack and then move with trick attack, wouldn't they call it "Shoot and then Run?" I really don't know how people are misinterpreting not only the name of the feat but "at any time"

Since it explicitly calls out Covering Fire and Harrying Fire, I would assume that it only applies to the very first attack against/by that opponent in or after your round. Yes, it "makes sense" that they would do that continuously, but I see nothing in the rules that would support such an interpretation.

So, as far as I can tell, they grant Covering Fire and Harrying Fire on your turn, once per turn. If it was continuous, that would strike me as pretty freaking powerful for a level 2 spell.

After re-reading the text: "...the cloud grants covering fire (see page 246) to anyone attacked by foes in its spaces" I had originally assumed this to mean any number of people attacked from this square, but I agree that it *should* only be one activation of the combat ability per turn. An effective +2 to hit and -2 to enemy attack rolls in the cloud seems like too big of a bonus for potentially affecting 4 enemies at once.

I agree that the spell is incredibly confusing.

I find the statement: "the microbots pursue and harass the nearest creature that is hostile to you as best they can each round" to suggest they pursue according their own ability to perceive the enemy. How perceptive they actually are probably has to be determined by the GM; including their perception of what is the nearest foe that is "hostile to you"

Their ability to provide harrying/covering fire is incredibly confusing but "grants harrying fire" and "grants covering fire" seems to specifically call out only the bonuses of such abilities while the enemies are contained within the space of the microbots.
It does not call attention to the fact that both are originally a ranged attack that only grant the bonus once against the foe.
The fact that these bonuses only apply while you continue to have line of effect and only until the beginning of your next turn seems to imply that these microbots are constantly applying these bonuses as long as enemies are inhabiting their square.

There are just so many assumptions to consider of the "cloud" as well:
If they work similar to a summoned swarm and the way they attack, then the bonuses probably only apply to creatures inhabiting the spaces in which the swarm ends it's turn. If it works this way then perhaps it could even utilize multiple two move actions, ready a move action to move if a foe tried to escape, and generally harass "..as best they can each round."
If it's just a cloud, then it probably moves once at the start of your turn, only affects things inhabiting the square where it ends it's move, and only has senses as complex as your interpretation of enemy positions.

gustavo iglesias wrote:

the biggest threat here is the melee boost. Everything else do not stack by itself (because they are insight bonus, etc) or don't matter that much. But melee stacking and adding +0.5 str bonus every time is pretty silly.

Even assuming a Strength of 22, which you can't even get until at least level 5 with augmentations on top of that, Melee Striker would only give you an extra +3 damage. That is trivial compared to what you are already automatically getting from weapon specialization, gets even more trivial once weapon damage dice start rapidly ramping up in a few levels, and is basically pathetic and a waste of a gear boost compared to the other options. It shouldn't even be there if it's not going to scale with level in some way.

If Melee Striker stacked you could potentially get it up to 5 times in order to apply an additional 2.5 times your strength on attacks. You can get up to a +8 modifier as soon as you can buy your mark 3 personal upgrade. Perhaps at level 15, with a lvl 16 curve blade:

I would say that only a few of them even potentially stack: Heavy Onslaught having an upper limit of reducing their total damage reduction; Flash Freeze having the limit of not being able to reduce movement below 10 feet; and Powerful Explosive which could potentially create a massive explosion with multiple boosts. All of the other ones seem to imply either a distinct change, and addition to an existing bonus that doesn't stack, or other limiting factors.

It would seem this is limited to spells. Would it be possible to use an Operative Weapon that utilizes your Dexterity to hit to deliver the "touch" of the melee attack?