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I think its worth noting that there were whole conventions created just to get people to be able to play all of a given region's scenarios in a weekend and they were widely successful, Wisconsin had several of these I attended over the years, and I will always look back fondly at the time I went to a campground in Ohio for a weekend and played all the Veluna scenarios, to me PFS convention play feels really hollow compared to this.
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If this did not go through the normal RVC tier of things, I might even be interested in assisting via writing / editing / creating templates, but I doubt I'd be interested supporting it for anything other than general play / GM unless there was an online region as it would likely fall in with the current RVC tiers of things.
Given that the operations of our organized play system is largely based on the Venture-Officer platform, I would expect the RVCs would have some impact on the program. The amount of logistical work that Tonya and the development team has to do to keep OP running, we expect more tasks to be "off loaded" to the VO corps and that pretty much starts with the RVC. If a community-based content program was to be added, which does not seem to be a consideration given Paizo's response, I would expect RVCs to have some involvement. I could not speculate what that would look like, but it would surprise me if the VOs did not weigh heavily in the logistics.
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...unless there was an online region...
It seems you missed this blog
It is our great pleasure to announce the creation of an eleventh region—the Online region, under the guidance of Jesse Davis, also known as Ironhelixx.
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...unless there was an online region...It seems you missed this blog
No, I saw it. I spend unhealthy amounts of time on Paizo, though less now that 2E has been announced.
As we're discussing something that was historically based on physical regions, the comment was based on if that trend would continue, which would make online somewhat anomalous in that someone would be effectively able to be in two regions at once.Bob J. - concur, but as usual ... bug vs. feature. :)
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As we're discussing something that was historically based on physical regions, the comment was based on if that trend would continue, which would make online somewhat anomalous in that someone would be effectively able to be in two regions at once.
I think that could be a good thing especially for players with an unhealthy/unsustainable addiction to playing. I don't think there would be a risk of a shared online "region" interfering with live events. The convenience of that medium already has advantages we cannot duplicate live so if we did expand the campaign to community created content and decided not to include online as a region, it shouldn't hurt online play in any meaningful way.
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As we're discussing something that was historically based on physical regions, the comment was based on if that trend would continue, which would make online somewhat anomalous in that someone would be effectively able to be in two regions at once.I think that could be a good thing especially for players with an unhealthy/unsustainable addiction to playing. I don't think there would be a risk of a shared online "region" interfering with live events. The convenience of that medium already has advantages we cannot duplicate live so if we did expand the campaign to community created content and decided not to include online as a region, it shouldn't hurt online play in any meaningful way.
Even without considering online play people are able to cross regional borders. Treating online any different than other regions is not productive and will only cause confusion
Most games will end and start in the same region, so being in two regions at once won't be an issue, barring very specific cases. Playing while traveling or finishing a live game online are the ones that come to mind.
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what does Paizo get out of this?
I think historically that is true, however, remember that now organized play is no longer directly managed by Paizo. The Organized Play Foundation manages the campaign with Tonya as the OPM. That means while OP continues to be a marketing platform for Paizo indirectly, it also has the charter of bringing in other game systems that Paizo does not directly profit from. Say for instance, Shadowrun wanted to take advantage of our massive volunteer base. They could join the OPF. Paizo would not have any control over how the OPF would manage that OP community. Community contributed scenario shouldn't effect the revenue stream of Paizo at all. In fact, now that we have the OPF it makes community created content even more viable. In the past, if they allowed it, Paizo ran the risk of it looking like they were eliciting "work" from volunteers which would cause all sorts of problems. However, now that we have the OPF, if we have a process by which qualified volunteers were doing all the vetting for content, grammar, use of artwork, etc. it wouldn't cost them anything at all. They simply would not be directly involved in the program at all. Though theoretically they would benefit from more play/players and that should drive more revenue.
And that more than anything else is the reason I think we'll never get this program. Paizo maintains an almost obsessive level of control over their product. That is not to say many do not have errors, but generally speaking their product is of very high quality and letting a community contributed content program to exist would mean allowing the appearance of lower quality products or at least the possibility of it. Granted it would not technically be a Paizo product, but since they are iconically connected to their Pathfinder product, anything that carries that name is going to be linked back to them. AFAIK, even licensed 3PP have quality expectations or risk losing their licensing.
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IMO, the only real issue is with quality control of the content. The rest of the challenges are just a matter of opinion on how they are handled and creating a rule set to govern them. Quality control is a different matter. It takes qualified people to volunteer their time to proof-read all the submitted content, be prepared to "red-line" necessary changes both technical and creative in a timely fashion, and do it again when the material is resubmitted. That's a lot to ask of a volunteer especially since those best qualified for the position probably do it as a profession and we are therefore significantly reducing the value of their time.
And considering this would be a world-wide program, we would need a reasonably significant sized review team with multiple languages supported. That is our biggest hurdle. IMO, the rest is just static
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Appalachia
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I think this is an experiment ABSOLUTELY worth embarking on, especially for PFS1 after 2e launches as a pilot program since the 'stakes' are a bit lower.
The program Bob is describing sounds like the best of the old Living Greyhawk system (which as a then-resident of Western PA I was blessed with some high 'geographical' luck) with a number of its issues removed.
I know that several of my fellow local VOs would have a blast with this sort of opportunity to generate content. I think the QC problems are a little bit overblown, but I also think that would be the entire point of doing a pilot program for it first. If it can be demonstrated that this is possible I think a lot of the QC concerns would be lifted.
I mean just thinking of Year 9 content alone, there are a number of fairly egregious rules inconsistencies or just flat-out rules misunderstood so its not as though even the Paizo generated content is perfect.
I think that we could get some pretty interesting content produced by people who have a pretty in-depth understanding of the rules and love for the campaign and I would love to see what we could do with the opportunity.
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I know that several of my fellow local VOs would have a blast with this sort of opportunity to generate content. I think the QC problems are a little bit overblown...
My biggest concerns would be the possible departure from accepted Golarion canon and the temptation to fall into fanservice.
I'm playing in Minnesota and while the Minnesota crew is a great bunch of folks (love you guys!), if that leadership is responsible for the creation and oversight of our regional content, I fear those mission briefings from Venture-Captain THUNDERLIPS! and how "Lucious" Lucius Vizinni might repurpose Absolam's Grand Lodge.
And I think a lot of Secondary Success Conditions might involve drink and drinking.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Appalachia
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Right, but reading Bob's posts, I think things like that could largely be side-stepped by putting content standards in place (only using established VCs for instance or perhaps a requirement that content be all-ages appropriate).
These things are only problems if we let them be.
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only using established VCs for instance...
If this is in reference to who could write the content, IMO, it would be a bad idea. The skill sets are completely different. The ability to be a good organizer and steward of the campaign is nothing like the ability to write creative stories, develop encounters, or know the difference between a preposition and a dangling participle. If anything, initial approval should be restricted to those who are already published and therefore (theoretically) proven their ability. Then it could be opened gradually to the general community. The bigger concern will be who is reviewing the material for rules accuracy, cannon consistency, and technical writing correctness. Again, being a VO should not necessarily automatically qualify someone for the review team.
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I'm not understanding the benefit of this.
Scenarios take a lot of time and effort to write. I don't understand the appeal of locking them so only a handful of regions in the world can play them.
The benefit would be more coherent story arcs.
Say that France was Cheliax. Now French players (and those travelling to France) could consistently have Cheliax focused adventures and series. And, with people concentrating on a specific area you will get a richer canon.
Venture-Agent, Australia—QLD—Brisbane
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But, what if French people end up disliking playing in nothing but a Devil-loving country? How do you overcome that lack of variety? Not to mention, there is still only a select few others who will get to experience those coherent story arcs.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Appalachia
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only using established VCs for instance...If this is in reference to who could write the content, IMO, it would be a bad idea. The skill sets are completely different. The ability to be a good organizer and steward of the campaign is nothing like the ability to write creative stories, develop encounters, or know the difference between a preposition and a dangling participle.
I was responding to the fear that people might use this as an opportunity to canonize local jokes and such. There would need to be standards to keep the fanfiction aspect in check is all I was saying by for instance only allowing previously established (in world) venture captains to serve in NPC roles.
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But, what if French people end up disliking playing in nothing but a Devil-loving country? How do you overcome that lack of variety? Not to mention, there is still only a select few others who will get to experience those coherent story arcs.
If the people complaining about lack of variety are the ones writing the games it seems a fairly simple solution.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16
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I'm not understanding the benefit of this.
Scenarios take a lot of time and effort to write. I don't understand the appeal of locking them so only a handful of regions in the world can play them.
The benefit would be more coherent story arcs.
Say that France was Cheliax. Now French players (and those travelling to France) could consistently have Cheliax focused adventures and series. And, with people concentrating on a specific area you will get a richer canon.
Changing the release schedule and locking out scenarios won't really accomplish that.
If you want a coherent story arc, you're better off simply asking your local coordinator to run all scenarios in a story arc. One of my coordinators ran almost all of the Blakros scenarios in anticipation for Oath of the Overwatched.
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I think *you* are missing the point of the objectives of a program like this.
First, it increases the amount of available content which is something that our more prolific areas always ask for. Paizo has a limitation on what it can produce in a month. Not that we won't have some limitations should a program like this become a reality, but the most liberal application would allow essentially unlimited additional content.
Second, many areas ask for tools to encourage players to travel to their area to increase attendance. Having some regional exclusive content will accomplish that. Sure there are areas that will benefit more from this aspect than others, but that is true of a lot of our existing rules.
Third, it can create greater interest by having area-specific mini-plots going on within the meta-plot. It creates additional story arcs that the local player-base is more intensely invested in. This was one of the most widely liked aspects of Living Greyhawk and it helped to bolster continued participation.
Remember, the idea of regionally produced content is to provide more opportunities to play. To some extent, it is that simple.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Appalachia
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The idea that the content is not truly "locked" but instead I just produced by regions and exclusive to them for a time pretty smoothly addresses the Fear Of Missing Out aspect going on here too.
All in all, I think this is all pretty cleverly crafted Bob. I would definitely be interested to see what could be done with it.
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i am hoping that Paizo/OPF will be more open to the idea in PFS after 2E launches. It would bridge the gap between people who want/need more options to continue with the original campaign while not expanding replay which is a non0-started for many. Since they won't be producing more product for it and focusing on PFS2, the need to keep such tight controls on quality and the direction of the meta is reduced. I think it would be a great opportunity to try something like this. And if it did work effectively, it could be expanded into PFS2 to alleviate the constant pressure for more constant both in PFS and SFS.
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I know that several of my fellow local VOs would have a blast with this sort of opportunity to generate content. I think the QC problems are a little bit overblown...My biggest concerns would be the possible departure from accepted Golarion canon and the temptation to fall into fanservice.
I'm playing in Minnesota and while the Minnesota crew is a great bunch of folks (love you guys!), if that leadership is responsible for the creation and oversight of our regional content, I fear those mission briefings from Venture-Captain THUNDERLIPS! and how "Lucious" Lucius Vizinni might repurpose Absolam's Grand Lodge.
And I think a lot of Secondary Success Conditions might involve drink and drinking.
"GOOD MORNING PATHFINDERS!" the tall Ulfen bellows as he sets the keg on the table and rests his trusty hammer against his chair.
"YOU ALL WERE SELECTED FOR A MISSION OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE. THE HALL OF THE DRUNKEN HERO REACHED OUT FOR OUR HELP FOR A RATHER DELICATE MANNER. SOMEONE OR SOMETHING IS POISONING THE BEER SERVED IN THE HALL. THIS HAS CAUSED A CRISIS OF FAITH AMONG THE FAITHFUL. SO FAR THEIR DIVINATIONS HAVE REVEALED NOTHING MORE THAN JUDICIOUS USES OF LESSER RESTORATION TO REMOVE THEIR HANGOVERS. THE PRIESTS HAVE PRODUCED A LIST OF POSSIBLE SUSPECTS.
"INVESTIGATE THESE PEOPLE AND DETERMINE IF ANY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS SACRIL-, SACROLO-, THIS BLASPHEMY AGAINST A HOLY BEVERAGE MORE THAN JUST A BREAKFAST DRINK."
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I know that several of my fellow local VOs would have a blast with this sort of opportunity to generate content. I think the QC problems are a little bit overblown...My biggest concerns would be the possible departure from accepted Golarion canon and the temptation to fall into fanservice.
I'm playing in Minnesota and while the Minnesota crew is a great bunch of folks (love you guys!), if that leadership is responsible for the creation and oversight of our regional content, I fear those mission briefings from Venture-Captain THUNDERLIPS! and how "Lucious" Lucius Vizinni might repurpose Absolam's Grand Lodge.
And I think a lot of Secondary Success Conditions might involve drink and drinking.
We love you too, Earl!
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I know that several of my fellow local VOs would have a blast with this sort of opportunity to generate content. I think the QC problems are a little bit overblown...My biggest concerns would be the possible departure from accepted Golarion canon and the temptation to fall into fanservice.
I'm playing in Minnesota and while the Minnesota crew is a great bunch of folks (love you guys!), if that leadership is responsible for the creation and oversight of our regional content, I fear those mission briefings from Venture-Captain THUNDERLIPS! and how "Lucious" Lucius Vizinni might repurpose Absolam's Grand Lodge.
And I think a lot of Secondary Success Conditions might involve drink and drinking.
Rest assured, if this becomes a thing we will treat it with the utmost respect. I don;'t think I could follow through with that because it would be so damn stupid.
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** spoiler omitted **...I know that several of my fellow local VOs would have a blast with this sort of opportunity to generate content. I think the QC problems are a little bit overblown...My biggest concerns would be the possible departure from accepted Golarion canon and the temptation to fall into fanservice.
I'm playing in Minnesota and while the Minnesota crew is a great bunch of folks (love you guys!), if that leadership is responsible for the creation and oversight of our regional content, I fear those mission briefings from Venture-Captain THUNDERLIPS! and how "Lucious" Lucius Vizinni might repurpose Absolam's Grand Lodge.
And I think a lot of Secondary Success Conditions might involve drink and drinking.
damn... I may need to drag out the GPS and see how far a road trip to Minnesota actually is... I wonder if the Chronicles will have pre-printed "beer-mug" water-marks or if we'll have to produce them during play...