I've been looking at Starfinder multi classing, and overall it seems weaker than was available in Pathfinder. I'm assuming that most games never reach level 20, so the capstone abilities at that level don't really matter.
All the classes except Solarian and Soldier need levels in their class in order to gain a better insight bonuses to their skills. Without those increasing insight bonuses, it becomes even more difficult to meet the high skill DCs expected at higher levels.
Mechanics using an Exocortex want the bonus to hit with their weapons and later the exocortex mods and ability to track multiple targets.
Mechanics using a drone would find the drone increasingly underpowered.
Mystics use spells. Missing more than one or two levels of spellcasting is still horrible.
Operatives want the trick attack bonus damage, increased movement, and increased number of attacks on a full attack.
Solarians are going to want Flashing Strikes and triple attack. Those using Solar Weapon are dependent on levels to improve their weapon, while those using Solar Armor would no doubt like the higher protective values.
Soldiers want Soldiers Onslaught in order to make more attacks on a full attack, although those going Hit and Run style would likely find that less critical. They probably suffer the least from multi classing depending on how high level the game is expected to go.
Technomancers use spells. Once again, missing more than one or two levels of spellcasting is horrible.
I can see plenty of possibilities of dips for between one and four levels in different classes. What I don't see is good combinations for going approximately even levels in two classes.
Operative into Solarian for Solar Armor gets +1 AC and +1 damage for just a single level dip. Always stay in Photon mode. I can't see any cases where dipping Solarian for Solar Weapon makes sense.
Mechanic with ExoCortex could dip into Soldier for a few extra feats.
Although it would be tempting for a Mechanic with a Drone to dip Technomancer, they are probably better off in most cases taking the Technomantic Dabbler feat. If they come out with a feat that makes up for a few levels in other classes on the drone like Boon Companion does for Animal Companions in Pathfinder, that would change.
Soldier into Operative to gain some ability with skills, or Envoy to gain some ability to lead.
I would agree in the assessment that Starfinder is not set up to encourage multiclassing at this point. Aside from dips, I would say that Soldier 9 / Envoy 6 (or something similar) is the only combination I can think of that doesn't have obvious shortcomings.
What's your threshold for Dip vs Multiclassing? Because even in Pathfinder, outside of some niche builds (usually involving PrCs, which notably are not a thing in Starfinder... at least yet) I rarely see recommendations to do more than about 5 levels in a second class. Rogues usually want their Sneak Attack progression, Casters want their spell level and CL progression, most any class with a resource pool generally wants their pool progression... basically if you're not, like, a Fighter or something generally it's going to cost something pretty important to your class, and unless you're really going for something specific is rarely worth it.
One or two levels is most definitely a dip. At 12th level, I would consider 4 levels in another class a dip.
Most say the Gunslinger and Swashbuckler don't get many abilities that people consider important past the first five levels. I assume people multiclass those with other classes.
You can do a quite effective unchained barbarian / unchained rogue combination. Their uncanny dodge stacks, the rage adds to each attack so double weapons or two weapon fighting becomes pretty good, and iterative attacks are based only on BAB so you don't have to go deep into the class in order to get them. There also aren't the increasing insight bonuses that Starfinder has that would make higher level skill DCs so difficult for a multi classed character.
Rogue with Fighter can maintain sneak attack progression if they want via Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat.
There are a lot of options like that in Pathfinder.
Starfinder seems designed and balanced for the game to remain meaningfully playable right up to twentieth level, and there aren't many Starfinder classes where I would particularly want to give up class abilities past the ninth level. I can't personally think of many scenarios where I would even consider dipping, let alone doing more than that.
I’m planning on mixing Operative (Hacker) with Mechanic (Cortex) at a roughly 3:1 ratio for my SFS character. Won’t be as optimized for combat as a pure Operative, but her abilities as an engineer and hacker will be greatly enhanced.Apart from remote hack (which if you are going 3:1 you won't get till lvl 20) the Mechanic isn't improving your hacking much at all. You'll have a mechanic trick that could help when you hit 8th and another at 16th. Your engineering might be a little better, but no more than if you had just taken a feat.
In exchange you are giving up 2d8 of trick damage, double debilitation, 3 exploits and supreme operative. Supreme Operative on its own (roll twice on hacking take the best every time) means at the end of the day you are probably actually making someone WORSE at hacking by taking the 5 levels of mechanic. Bit moot as that is level 20 we are talking about but still.
Most games don’t go to 20.
I especially don’t expect SFS to go to 20.
Let’s see how it comes out though...
Operative (Hacker) 3, Mechanic (Exo Cortex) 1
You will need to give up Trick Attack if you want tracking. Gained some in Fort save and your Reflex save is excellent. Bypass will never give you a better insight bonus than you have off your Operative’s Edge.
There are no Operative Exploits you could have taken to help hack.
You did gain proficiency with grenades.
Operative (Hacker) 6, Mechanic 2
You had delayed getting the Specialization Exploit a level, but have it now.
You just picked up Speed Hacker from your most recent Operative level. You also can pick up Hack Directory from your mechanic trick.
You don’t have Skill Mastery yet, would have if you had gone straight Operative. Your insight bonus is only +2 instead of +3.
Operative (Hacker) 9, Mechanic 3
You continue to be 1 behind on the insight bonus. The only thing you have to gain from Operative any more is the improved insight bonus and (at 11th level) the Control Hack.
Might be better at this point to go Hacker 6, Mechanic 6 so as to get Remote Hack and Ghost Intrusion.
Doing that, your insight bonus is 2 behind where it would be for straight Operative and 1 behind what it would be for straight Mechanic. Combat power is also lagging, although there would be ways of working around it.when you have tracking, at least your to hit would be better than a straight Operative.
After this, I don’t see a large advantage from either class hacking. The 11th level Operative power alone probably isn’t worth going Operative, but there are other reasons that might make it worthwhile.
Adding more Mechanic levels would get you Expert Rig (to disable security countermeasures) and the Scoutbot trick which doesn’t directly help against computers, but additional surveillance seems appropriate for a Hacker.
I would have to analyze it more deeply, but there would be a few synergies that could be taken advantage of. Still give up a lot and the Mechanic stuff doesn’t work well with the Trick Attack.
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I would agree in the assessment that Starfinder is not set up to encourage multiclassing at this point. Aside from dips, I would say that Soldier 9 / Envoy 6 (or something similar) is the only combination I can think of that doesn't have obvious shortcomings.
This one does look interesting. You would get the Soldier’s Onslaught for when you Full Attack. A few Envoy abilities that can buff your party.
I would be interested in hearing more about this combination.
No, I can't see that multiclassing evenly is generally going to be a good idea. Still, thought experiment time. Suppose you want a lashunta with a bit more psychic ability but you don't want to be a spellcaster, and taking all of phrenic adept looks crippling.
Koraya lashunta blitz forerunner soldier 1 / phrenic adept envoy 3 / soldier +2 / solar armor solarion X
Soldier is good to start with but doesn't offer so much later on. Taking it far enough to get gear boost (melee striker) and weapon spec (almost everything) is enough, and trading a feat for some skill stuff seems possibly worthwhile. The envoy gives an improvisation, expertise with a couple of skills and an expertise talent besides the phrenic adept extending your limited telepathy from 30' to 90'. Then solarion gives you full BAB without the limitations imposed by either archetype - though I suppose you could take all the rest as soldier, losing a couple more feats wouldn't be crippling.
Mechanic's Bypass Insight Bonus will not Stack with Operative's Edge Insight Bonus.
Combat Tracking will not greatly increase your attack bonus if you only have a couple levels of Mechanic. It is based on Mechanic level, not character level.
If you want to be a really sneaky Hacker, pick one or the other. Take skill versatility on your mechanic to gain stealth acrobatics as class skills if you want to be a ninja.
Mechanics can use a trick to add 1-7d6 to the damage of energy weapons, and they can take feats to use Longarms or Snipers. I don't think you'll miss operative.
Envoy probably works out better as the master spy/hacker/intrusuion specialist if that's what you're going for. This system doesn't lend itself to multiclassing, but you can customize each class quite a bit with feats and archetype paths.
I had an idea for a mind control character that was: Technomancer 2/ Mystic X, to utilize the Robot Influence magic hack to get all your mind affecting spells to also affect robots, constructs, and other mindless creatures. Not incredibly powerful, but definitely increases the versatility of some of your mystic spells/abilities.
Mechanic's Bypass Insight Bonus will not Stack with Operative's Edge Insight Bonus.
I believe everyone here knows that. Note how I said it was one of the problems multiclassing, that the insight bonus would be behind.
Combat Tracking will not greatly increase your attack bonus if you only have a couple levels of Mechanic. It is based on Mechanic level, not character level.
I probably should have made that explicit though. I still see the bigger problem being that the move action required for Combat Tracking conflicts with the move action required for Trick Attack.
With the Mechanic 6 / Operative 6 combo above, it would be +2 to hit for Combat Tracking, +3d8 for Trick Attack.
Envoy probably works out better as the master spy/hacker/intrusuion specialist if that's what you're going for. This system doesn't lend itself to multiclassing, but you can customize each class quite a bit with feats and archetype paths.
Although the Envoy can get Skill Expertise with Computers, I think you would be much better going with straight Operative for what you described. Envoy Only has a single Expertise Talent that helps you hack (Fast Hack), and it requires giving up the insight bonus.
As for customizing, there are some very strange limitations on that. Hopefully they will expand the options for each class in the future without negating or overpowering a different class.
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I would agree in the assessment that Starfinder is not set up to encourage multiclassing at this point. Aside from dips, I would say that Soldier 9 / Envoy 6 (or something similar) is the only combination I can think of that doesn't have obvious shortcomings.This one does look interesting. You would get the Soldier’s Onslaught for when you Full Attack. A few Envoy abilities that can buff your party.
I would be interested in hearing more about this combination.
First off, the biggest hurdle to multiclassing, IMO, is weapon specialization. Unless you take three levels of the same class to begin with, you're gonna be behind the damage curve at third level by a significant margin unless you're sticking with small arms and operative melee weapons. I'm not taking about a 20% bump, either. If you're dealing 1d8 damage with an azimuth laser rifle (popular choice), weapon specialization takes that up to 1d8+3, which is a nearly 70% increase in average damage.
So for my hypothetical Soldier 9 / Envoy 6, I would start with Soldier 3. For a primary fighting style, I would lean towards Bombard, Guard, or Sharpshoot, as Bombard and Sharpshoot tend to encourage weapons that cannot full-attack (leaving room to attack and use improvisations in the same round) and Guard has some good tactical synergy (or at least some style synergy) with improvisations like Inspiring Boost.
Choosing feats and gear boosts is an exercise left to the reader - I don't think there's an obvious choice here, as you can build basically anything you would build with a soldier. Compared with Soldier 13, this multiclass build gets 2/3 gear boosts (and cannot take Heavy Onslaught), 10/13 feats, 3/4 primary style techniques, and 1/2 secondary style techniques. Since the soldier class is kinda front-loaded, this isn't terrible.
So what do you gain from six levels of Envoy? Well, quite a bit. Envoy, as a class, is the most broad/least deep (you accumulate more abilities over time instead of working down one or two talent trees). If you draw out all the improvisations in a tree, you quickly notice that 6th level is a big threshold. There are seven improvisations that gain a resolve ability at 6th level (spend a resolve point and your improvisation auto-succeeds), and the improvisation 'Clever Improvisations', which reduces resolve cost, is available at 6th. Additionally, 4/5 improvisation trees top out at or before 6th, meaning you're nearly as effective at those things as a full-blooded envoy.
Personally, I would stick with improvisations that don't require skill checks (such as inspiring boost or get 'em), but there are many functional options here.
In total, that's 4 improvisations, skill expertise (1d6+1) with Sense Motive and 2 additional skills, and one expertise talent. Again, those decisions are left up to the reader as an exercise.
A quick look at basic stats - compared to Soldier 13, this build is short 6 SP, 6 HP, and 2 to BAB (you should be around 200 SP + HP total at this point). Base Fort. is still +8, base Ref. is up from +4 to +8, and base Will is improved from +8 to +11 (multiclassing can be good for your saves, kids). Oh, and 24 additional skill ranks and the class skills to go with them.
Overall, I think it's a flexible build that could help out a wide variety of parties by bringing good damage output, party buffing, and decent skill checks in targeted areas to the table.
It's not exactly multiclass, but I've been playing around with a Sharpshooter Soldier 3/Technomancer 17. The gimmick being using a sniper rifle and the Spellshot Magic Hack to deliver disintegrates via sniper rifle (eventually) from long distances. It's not exactly a stunner damage wise, but I thought it was pretty flavorful.
On the low end, it gets you all the weapon specializations/profs and a bonus feat, gear boost, -2 to the bonus from cover, and slightly better saves.
It's pretty costly if you want to play TM as a primary caster because you're three levels behind on spells. But if you're wanting to play TM as a shooter with spells as backup, it might be worth it, since you don't have to blow 2 feats on Longarm prof and Versatile Specialization. You just take Weapon Focus at 1 and Versatile Focus at 2, and you're actually still ahead one feat over TM and have access to Heavy and Sniper weapons with Full Focus and Specialization for free.
Soldier/Envoy is definitely interesting. Envoys can easily be built to ignore their Charisma stat, in particular, and the expertise talent that lets you re-roll actually gets worse as you gain Envoy levels. You can focus on envoy improvisations that consume reactions or no action at all to focus on a ranged build, or move actions for a melee build (to combine with a Blitz soldier, who usually attacks using a standard action to charge).
Envoy is definitely the winner for multiclassers. It can offer several abilities that maintain usefulness for many levels. The difficult part is justifying giving up progression in any of the other classes as they are all built to scale non linearly.
Dips, there's good to be had for solarian 2 (grab stellar rush and stellar mode, plus advanced melee proficiency), operative 3 (evasion, 10ft movement, an exploit, +2 insight to all skills), envoy 1 or 2 (1 or two improvisations plus expertise, and maybe grenade proficiency), and the dip king, soldier (all proficiencies, plus a fighting style bonus, and maybe a gear boost if you stick it out that far). There are a few other good dips, but those are the most universal dips.
With any multiclassing you are pretty much required to give up your 3rd level feat to grab specialization in at least 1 weapon type. You fix this later at level 5 with the mnemonic editor once you can qualify for versatile specialization. At that time you take versatile specialization as your 5th level feat and edit your third level feat to something useful. It's not ideal, but it is workable. If you were going to mix more than 2 classes this trick would be even harder to do so it will be very important to ensure you have at least 3 levels of something by character level 5.