Unchained Rogue Feats Build

[Crexis]

Level 1: Finesse training (bonus), Two Weapon Fighting (human bonus feat), Combat Expertise (1 feat)

Level 3: Weapon Focus (Daggers)

Level 5: Twist Away (pre-req evasion: for great fort saves)

Level 7: Dazzling Display (pre req weapon focus)

Level 8: Shatter Defenses (pre-req: weapon focus, dazzling display, bab +6) via Combat Trick -rogue talents

Level 9: Improved 2 weapon fighting: (pre-req: dex 17, 2WF, BAB:6) 2nd att w off-hand at -5 penalty (4 attacks total)

For all these PRE-10 feats, what are your thoughts on which feat to take at level 8 first - shatter defenses or improved 2WF

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Level 11: Two Weapon Feint

Level 12 or 13: Pharasma Diefic Obedience for +2 daggers

Two Weapon Feint: 1st att in primary hand can be used to do bluff check to feint, allowing you to do sneak attacks with rest of my attacks if full attacking

QUESTION: Is this for 1 add’n attack after successful feint or for all the rest of my attacks that round? If I'm unsuccesful with feint in primary hand am I able to try another feint with off-hand or for my 2nd attack with primary hand?

Pharasma Diefic Obedience: +2 to daggers
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Level 14-15+: UNSURE - Maybe these

Improved Feint: Bluff check to feint as a move action (allowing 1 attack as standard action) (I believe only worth taking this if you are taking greater feint)

Greater Feint: Whenever you use feint to cause an opponent to lose his Dexterity bonus, he loses that bonus until the beginning of your next turn, in addition to losing his Dexterity bonus against your next attack.

QUESTION: Only so my allies and I can take advantage of no dex to AC til my next turn, but it costs 2 feats, is it worth it to take these 2?

These 2 Feats below I'm not sure to take - leaning towards not taking, don't believe I have the room for them.

Pirhanna Strike - power attack for light weapons

Possessed Hand: +1 att/dmg, and +1 to disable device and sleight of hand.

Are these worthy?

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2 relevent Feats which I believe don't make the Cut:

Improved Two Weapon Feint: Same as 2W Feint but enemy loses his Dex Bonus to AC til end of your turn

Greater 2 Weapon Fighting: For 6th attack in offhand at -10 penalty - Seems way too severe a penalty to take

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A few questions in there, hope you can help - thanks guys

[Ferious Thune]

Two-Weapon Feint still only denies them their Dex for one attack. You need Improved Two-Weapon Feint or Greater Feint for it to apply to all of your attacks on your turn. The advantage of Two-Weapon Feint over Improved Feint is that you can make a full attack (with the TWF penalty). But it still only denies Dex for one attack.

I don’t think you can make a second Feint attempt in the same round that your first one fails. Not with Two-Weapon Feint, anyway, as that specifies the Feint is made with the main hand primary attack.

[Crexis]

So your saying with two-weapon feint I can only do 1 attack that denies their dex thus needing improved two weapon feint for my full attack.

If I grab improved feint and greater feint it's only use is that the enemy loses their Dex bonus AC for my allies. Probably not worth taking these 2 feats?

Is there any feats that you may recommend that I didn't put up on my list?

[Ferious Thune]

The combination I like is Two-Weapon Feint, Improved Feint, Greater Feint. Improved Feint is better than Two-Weapon Feint up until 8th Level when you get an iterative. Then when you have Greater Feint you get all the benefits of Improved Two-Weapon Feint plus it denies Dex for your allies. So you burn an extra feat, but you end up being able to Feint the other one Attack, then the target is denied Dex on the rest of your attacks and all of your allies’ attacks.

As for the rest of the feats, I think the Deification Obedience is more valuable at lower levels, when +2 damage has a bigger impact.

I’ve never gone with a Dazzling Display/Shatter Defenses build before. It looks to me like you’re splitting focus between being an Intimidate build to get your sneak attacks and being a Feint build to get them. Personally, I would go one route or the other, but not both. Too many feats involved for two chains.

Twist Away is a fantastic feat for a Rogue, because your Fort save won’t be fantastic. Iron Will isn’t a bad idea at some point, and neither is Improved Iron Will.

What are the Rogue Talents you are planning? You can grab Weapon Focus with the Weapon Training Rogue Talent at 2nd level freeing up your third level feat for Improved Feint or something else.

[Atalius]

Greetings furious one. Good points. The deific obedience grants +2 to attack rolls.

[Ferious Thune]

Ah, ok. Probably still more valuable at low levels, but good at higher levels, too. Especially with all those iterative off hand attacks. Any bonus to hit a Rogue can get is worth it.

[Atalius]

How about dipping ur daggers in some Shiver?

Effects variable; 50% chance to sleep for 1d4 hours or gain immunity to fear for 1d4 minutes Damage 1d2 Con damage

Or Opium as its dirt cheap

Effects 1 hour; +1d8 temporary hit points, +2 alchemical bonus on Fortitude saves, fatigue

Damage 1d4 Con and 1d4 Wis damage

[Crexis]

I went with dazzling display at 7 and shatter defenses at 8 because my 2 allies are built to intimidate. Barbarian is using cornugun smash which allows intimidate check as free action if he lands an attack. And my other ally is a cleric which will have an aura of doom on him all day long which will force them to make a save or become shaken. So I don’t need to use intimidate much or use feint feats early on.

I wouldn’t start getting the feint feats til level 11, mainly as a backup. Either getting 2 feats: Two Weapon Feint and Improved 2 Weapon feint. Or your idea of using up 3 feats to allow my allies to also get the bonus of no dex to AC via: Two Weapon Feint, Improved Feint and Greater Feint. Not sure yet which path is best.

I also have access to 2 more rogue talents/feats due to my human favored class ability at levels 6 and 12.

Here’s what my feats, rogue talents and advanced rogue talents are looking like right now:

FEATS:

Level 1: Finesse training (bonus), Two Weapon Fighting (human bonus feat), Combat Expertise (1 feat)

Level 2: Weapon Training Weapon Focus (Daggers)

Level 3: Pharasma Deific Obedience: +2 daggers

Level 5: Twist Away (pr evasion)

Level 7: Dazzling Display (pre req weapon focus)

Level 8: Combat Tricks. Shatter Defenses (PR: weapon focus, dazzling display, bab +6)

Level 9: Improved 2 weapon fighting: (PR dex 17, 2wf, bab6) 2nd att w off-hand at -5 penalty (4 attacks)

Level 11: Two Weapon Feint

Level 13: Improved Two Weapon Feint

Level 15: Iron will

Level 17: Improved Iron Will

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ROGUE TALENTS (levels 2,4,6,8):

Level 2: Weapon Training  Weapon Focus Daggers

Level 4: Surprise Attack: During surprise round opponents always considered flat footed to a rogue with this ability, even if they have already acted

Level 6: Eerie Disappearance: (PR rogue 6) As full round action, if reaches location that offers her cover or concealment any creature observing must perception check vs rogues stealth check. On a fail observer loses track. At end she can attempt intimidate check to demoralize all foes within 60 ft that were aware of her at any point and are unaware of her current location. Compares intimidate check only once vs DC for each opponent

Level 6  Human Favored Class: Slow Reactions *: Opponents dmgd by SA cant make AOO for 1 round

Level 8: Combat Trick: Shatter defenses

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ADVANCED ROGUE TALENTS (levels 10,12,14,16):

Level 10: Double Debilitation *: select two penalties to inflict. Any effect that heals dmg to target negates both

Level 10: Retrain Slow Reactions: Another Day: 1/day when rogue reduced to 0 or fewer hp by melee attack, she can take 5 foot step as an immediate action. If movement takes her out of reach of the attack, she takes no dmg. The rogue is staggered for 1 round on next turn.

Level 12: Entanglement of Blades: when SA dmg, target cant 5 ft step until beginning of rogues next turn

Level 12  Human Favored Class: Hunters Surprise: 1/day Designate single enemy that is adjacent as prey. Until end of next turn, you can add sneak damage to all attacks made against your prey, even if she not flanking or not flat footed. Free Action

Level 14: Opportunist: Rogue make AOO vs opponent who has just been struck for dmg in melee by another PC

Level 16: Unwitting ally: Make opponent act like an ally for purposes of providing a flank.

Comments?

[Dajur]

Your character looks good. Don't forget about the Cruel weapon ability to maximize the misfortune of the opponents that you cause to be Shaken. The Sickened condition stacks with Shaken. Make sure your Barbarian friend gets the Hurtful feat and the Cruel weapon ability as well as Cornugon Smash for excessive amounts of fun.

[Atalius]

It sounds like with your 2 allies creating the shaken condition so often you may not even need to get those 2 feats that will allow you to use feint on opponent to get sneak damage. You may want to use those 2 feats for something else. What is the best alternative you have as an unchained rogue?

[Atalius]

Does anyone know if the unchained rogue can get the weapon snatcher talent? It appears as if its only for chained rogues?

[avr]

Entanglement of blades is another non-unchained advanced rogue talent. On the other hand, petrifying strike (2 Dex damage each time you sneak attack) is valid and useful with multiple attacks, if those don't actually kill the enemy. An ancient red dragon has 362 HP and 8 dex. Otherwise that looks pretty good to me.

[Atalius]

avr wrote:

Entanglement of blades is another non-unchained advanced rogue talent. On the other hand, petrifying strike (2 Dex damage each time you sneak attack) is valid and useful with multiple attacks, if those don't actually kill the enemy. An ancient red dragon has 362 HP and 8 dex. Otherwise that looks pretty good to me.

Petrifying strike looks good, damn good. Is it available for the unchained rogue?

Indeed it is, just located it in the archives of nethys, and it is a beauty. Good find.

[Isabelle Lee]

Atalius wrote:

Petrifying strike looks good, damn good. Is it available for the unchained rogue?

It sure is! ^_^

In the words of Barry Dylan, "Well otherwise, I mean, what's the point?"

[Atalius]

Hidden Mind may be of use to you if you plan on getting a wand of mirror image like you mentioned before

[BretI]

You are a human. Might want to consider getting Vigilante Talent to pick up Shadow's Sight. Getting it pretty late, but at least then you could see in the dark.

There are a couple of other Vigilante Talents that might be worth an Advanced Talent: Hide in Plain Sight (the Shadow Dancer version instead of the Ranger version normally available), Cunning Feint (denied Dex against all remaining attacks), or Blind Spot.

[Crexis]

Im conflicted about a few advanced rogue talents. I only have room for 3 of them.

Unwitting ally: Make opponent act like an ally for purposes of providing a flank.

Opportunist: Rogue make AOO vs opponent who has just been struck for dmg in melee by another PC

Hunters Surprise: 1/day Designate single enemy that is adjacent as prey. Until end of next turn, you can add sneak damage to all attacks made against your prey, even if she not flanking or not flat footed. Free Action

Slippery Mind: If a rogue with slippery mind is affected by an enchantment spell or effect and fails her saving throw, she can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC. She can attempt only one additional saving throw against any given effect using this ability.
** My will saves are my worst **

Hidden Mind: A rogue with this talent uses various devious techniques, including mental exercises and dusting her clothing with a small amount of lead, to protect herself from divinations, with the same benefits as if she cast nondetection on herself with a caster level equal to her rogue level.
** I plan on making great use of mirror image, so it would be used for that **

Recommendations? I'm leaning towards Hidden Mind, Slippery Mind and not sure about the 3rd one

This is for the Giantslayers campaign