For future archetype design planning to work around wild shape it'd be a very good idea to move then mention of gaining Wild Shape at-will at 20th level from the Final Aspect class ability to the Wild Shape class ability.
There have been FAQ updates for it, though I have no idea how to access the FAQ on this new layout.
The FAQs can be accessed from the Help button at the top right of the page.
The FAQs can be accessed from the Help button at the top right of the page.
Cool. I tried to get to it through community -> community use -> faq and it goes no where. I didn't expect it to be someplace that ISN'T labeled "Frequently Asked Questions". :P
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I was a little disappointed there was no dragon shifter archetype though more so that there was no fey since the book had just introduced fey form spells. But then again they also introduced the ooze form based spells and...well anyway lets get back to the wild shape stuff for the base shifter;)
Yeah, the more I think about it having animal, vermin, and magical beast makes sense for the shifter wild shape especially when you take into account the chimeric aspect and mixing traits from animals+animals, animals+vermin and vermin+vermin sounds like magical beast to me:)
It'd be pretty neat if the Oozemorph got Ooze Shape spells in it's transformation repertoire. Sadly that would also shove their design in a completely different direction than what the archetype already is.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So for purposes of updating d20pfsrd.com, we ONLY update classes and such with OFFICIAL errata, that is, when Paizo releases a PDF that is OFFICIAL errata, or has an actual FAQ update. Is there such an update for the Shifter, or is it JUST a forum post thus far?
Here's a pdf of the shifter that's just regular shifter + errata as indicated by the FAQ errata and it's formatted like the Shifter on your site.
The only thing I'm not certain on 100% is how Shifter's Fury would be presented on the table.
EDIT: now that I look at it, I really dislike how they set up the Shifter table in the book, it's aesthetically unsatisfying.
SNIP
Sorry I don't know why google drive keeps turning off link sharing, it's on.
|
If we're using the "Shape" spells I'd probably cast a vote for the Animal > Vermin > Magical Beast progression, leaving Elemental and Plant for archetypes - with a change to the Elemental Shifter making it mechanically worthwhile to turn into an elemental.
I'd like to divorce stats from shape- allow me to bite just as well with the corgi aspect (...yeah, Mark added that in the shifter errata thread) as I do with the wolf aspect.
Ok, slightly more serious- I'd rather not have my stats attached to size. Because some sizes are inconvenient. This seems relevant to me, because the recent change in the shifter's wild shape appears to allow them to change back and forth while still using the same hour of wild shape use.
3) Using BS2 (or the Beast Shape line in general TBH) kinda screws over Small and Medium forms, since they get a lesser bonus (Medium vs Large has one less AC bonus and of course half the bonus to Attack and Damage, Small vs Tiny misses out on 2 points of AC (though changing the stats only fixes 1 point of that ^.^; ) at the cost of a single point of attack/damage if they're even Strength based, in fact gaining attack if they have Finesse which Small probably wants anyways) than the Large/Tiny forms do. I think for my home games I'm just going to rule that Medium and Small use the Large and Tiny stat changes respectively.
Been thinking about this. How balanced would the different shape sizes be if ability score adjustments weren't included?
- Tiny gets: +2 Attack/AC, -2 CMB/CMD, +8 Stealth, no threatened squares, reduced weapon die est -2 average damage*
- Small gets: +1 Attack/AC, -1 CMB/CMD, +4 Stealth, 8 threatened squares, reduced weapon die est -1 average damage*
- Medium gets no modifiers, 8 threatened squares
- Large gets -1 Attack/AC, +1 CMB/CMD, -4 Stealth, 12 threatened squares, increased weapon die up to +3.5 average damage*
*Natural weapon dice on forms vary quite a bit. The existing small and tiny forms have d3-d4 natural weapons, while the medium and large forms mostly have d6 and d8 attacks (exceptions being the large tiger and snake forms with a 2d6 bite). The more consistent adjustment would be an increase or decrease in the Shifter's Claw damage as applied to your natural attacks in Major Form (assuming that the size adjustments apply). This would give Tiny forms a maximum Shifter's Claw damage of d6, small of d8, medium d10, and Large 2d8.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah, I wish the shifter was formatted in the book like the monk(unarmed strike/AC bonuses) with claw and AC bonuses on the chart progression and not listed in the special abilities.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah, I wish the shifter was formatted in the book like the monk(unarmed strike/AC bonuses) with claw and AC bonuses on the chart progression and not listed in the special abilities.
But then it would be obvious how many dead levels the shifter actually has.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Which is a serious problem I hope they fix in the second printing.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm still disappointed there's no Dragon shifter
I second that! I'd really like to see a dragon shifter archetype to go along with the fiendish shifter.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah, I wish the shifter was formatted in the book like the monk(unarmed strike/AC bonuses) with claw and AC bonuses on the chart progression and not listed in the special abilities.But then it would be obvious how many dead levels the shifter actually has.
I know I'm a broken record, but I agree. Even adding bonus feats would be great.
Jason or other development team members - if you're checking in on this thread would it be possible to get a brief update as to whether further changes to the Shifter are in development or is the class "done" in Paizo's eyes (with the understanding that all classes are open to adjustments/clarifications in the future as the game evolves and questions arise)? I'm not trying to be rude in any way but such an update would let all of us posting ideas and opinions know whether we are spinning our wheels at this point or whether we should continue posting ideas. Thanks for your work on the class and for considering the input the community has been providing.
Speaking of a dragon shifter archetype ether they will have to get draconic wild shape much later then standard wild shape or we will need some weaker dragon related polymorph spells like "pseudo/fairy dragon form", "drake form", etc.
At least we have polymorph spells for most creature forms for just about every shifter archetype you would want...except (most)aberrations, constructs and non-elemental outsiders.
Look at the draconic druid archetype.
at 4th level, she can use wild shape to change into a dragon-scaled version of herself with long fangs, gaining a +1 natural armor bonus to her AC and a bite attack appropriate for her size (1d6 points of damage for a Medium druid) but otherwise retaining her usual form.
At 10th level, she can spend two uses of wild shape to transform into a Medium dragon as per form of the dragon I, and at 12th level, she can spend two uses to change into a Large dragon as per form of the dragon II.
I wouldn't mind waiting until 10th level for dragon wild shape if you also got a breath weapon(usable 1d4 rounds and damage dice like sneak attack/kinetic blast), wings, claws, energy resistance, save bonus/immunity vs paralysis/sleep, natural armor bonus, darkvision, etc. But then again the class would need enough class features to actually trade for all that:(
I wouldn't mind waiting until 10th level for dragon wild shape if you also got a breath weapon(usable 1d4 rounds and damage dice like sneak attack/kinetic blast), wings, claws, energy resistance, save bonus/immunity vs paralysis/sleep, natural armor bonus, darkvision, etc. But then again the class would need enough class features to actually trade for all that:(
Not really, if you just put it in as a variant of their Wildshape. Instead of duplicating Beast Shape 2, Dragon Shifter gets that stuff... and then specific stuff based on a Dragon Aspect. Which honestly I think would be pretty cool, have archetype-specific Aspects linked to the various kinds of Dragons. Heck, put it in a main book so they'll actually support it and more aspects could be added later on, beyond the basic Chromatic/Metallic. And then one of the level scalings, or else a built-in scaling for the new Wild Shape, could be being able to actually take on Dragon form.
|
|
I hadn't thought about the idea of a dragon shifter using the different kinds of dragons as aspects - sounds really neat!
You've got to have enough class features to turn into a proper dragon, because you'll be trading out basically all of them. I think just about the only thing you'd keep is Shifter's Claws, and maybe Defensive Instinct (though I'd swap that for the natural armour) and Timeless Body.
I'd probably throw the breath weapon and energy resistance under Aspect because they'd change based on dragon type. (Note: I'd also have Aspects available at will by level 6 or so.)
I feel like you could trade out Chimeric Aspect and Greater Chimeric Aspect for Form of the Dragon I and II. That leaves you with Wild Shape and the random druid abilities (wild empathy, track, wilderness stride, trackless step, thousand faces) to trade for other general dragon abilities like the darkvision and save bonuses or getting bite and wings before level 9. You could even get rid of Shifter's Fury and the increase in damage for Shifter's Claws in exchange for the bite and wing attacks.
But even if you're waiting until level 10(ish) to get the full "turn into a dragon" experience, the archetype would need enough dragon abilities before then to make it feel worth playing. The Dragon Disciple seems to do a good job of spacing things out, for example - though of course you'd need to balance the Dragon Shifter differently than a prestige class that also advances arcane casting.
And if we're going to be giving out claws, a bite, wings, natural armour, breath attack, and energy resistance before Form of the Dragon, then Form of the Dragon basically gives you the Str/Con bonuses, darkvision, and maybe a swim or burrow speed.
It seems like further changes to the shifter class and archetypes may not be forthcoming as we haven't seen any updates to the FAQ in awhile. I did pick up Legendary Games Legendary Shifter and was really impressed. I know it's 3PP material but if a GM allows it and you want to play a shifter class that has much of the input the community has been providing integrated into it, consider checking it out.
It seems like further changes to the shifter class and archetypes may not be forthcoming as we haven't seen any updates to the FAQ in awhile. I did pick up Legendary Games Legendary Shifter and was really impressed. I know it's 3PP material but if a GM allows it and you want to play a shifter class that has much of the input the community has been providing integrated into it, consider checking it out.
Legendary Shifter is pretty good, I took part in the playtest. I wish paizo would shamelessly steal more from it.
"Steal more"?, what did they "steal" from it to begin with?
Well guess it's about time for me to start home brewing up some things to make the shifter more palatable to people who don't see a reason to play it in my groups. Still does nothing for the official play crowds.
|
Legendary Shifter is pretty good, I took part in the playtest. I wish paizo would shamelessly steal more from it.
Thanks.
"Steal more"?, what did they "steal" from it to begin with?
I'm assuming that's in reference to the change in duration to wild shape, which was apart of the Legendary Shifter from pretty early into the playtest. I originally used the normal wild shape duration in the project, but after a lot of people talked about how they wanted something more fluid, I settled on the 1 hour per 2 class level formula that felt like it helped everything play more cohesively.
Thanks for the info N. Jolly.
Home brewing is nice when you are DMing but doesn't help you when you want to be a player character:(
Speaking of archetypes a fey based shifter one would be awesome with fey wild shape and fey aspects like pixie(invisibility), nixie(water breathing), redcap(wield a weapon larger then normal), etc.
Legendary Shifter is pretty good, I took part in the playtest. I wish paizo would shamelessly steal more from it.Thanks.
"Steal more"?, what did they "steal" from it to begin with?I'm assuming that's in reference to the change in duration to wild shape, which was apart of the Legendary Shifter from pretty early into the playtest. I originally used the normal wild shape duration in the project, but after a lot of people talked about how they wanted something more fluid, I settled on the 1 hour per 2 class level formula that felt like it helped everything play more cohesively.
Sorry, sarcasm doesn't carry well in text format. BTW my table enjoy the archetypes for legendary shifter.
Well guess it's about time for me to start home brewing up some things to make the shifter more palatable to people who don't see a reason to play it in my groups. Still does nothing for the official play crowds.
Unfortunately, I'm thinking the same thing, that the Shifter we have now is the Shifter we're going to have moving forward. I think it's a solid class but unfortunately doesn't scratch that master of shapeshifting itch I envisioned when it was announced. In retrospect, naming it the "Shifter" conjured up thoughts of the old third edition Shifter so this is what I was hoping to see in terms of concept. That's more my problem than Paizo's though. Fortunately, I'm the GM of my group and we don't do anything with Pathfinder Society so I'm making the Legendary Shifter a playable class in my campaign. It fits in with the hopes I had for a Pathfinder-based Shifter.
Well, with today's announcement of Pathfinder Playtest I think it makes more sense as to why we haven't seen additional work to fix the Shifter and its archetypes. Maybe it'll be rebuilt in Pathfinder 2.0.
It certainly explains why Paizo has been falling behind on so many things. They are basically juggling three game systems now (albeit they are guiding one of them towards retirement now).
Well so much for a fix for this class as well as all the potential for archetypes and other options.
Well so much for a fix for this class as well as all the potential for archetypes and other options.
Should've been a slam dunk. Just gonna throw my fix out there. Kinda expect this is what people were looking for. Painful's Shifter Fix.